Your Right to Change Employment Service Providers

Changing Employment Service Providers is a very important right of unemployed workers. If your employment service provider refuses to fulfill their obligations towards you, requesting a transfer to another provider can be an effective way to ensure you receive the appropriate treatment.

If you believe you have a valid reason to transfer, the AUWU recommend you request a transfer by calling the the Department of Employment Customer Service Line on 1800 805 260 (free call from landlines).

Alternatively, you can download a transfer by agreement form here. You will have to sign and submit this form (either physically or via email) to both your current job agency, and the job agency you want to transfer to.

Before you try and organise your transfer, click here to search for job agencies in your area to find one close to you.

According to the law, you can transfer in the following five circumstances:

1.5   Changing Providers Due to Change of Address

If you change address you and you become closer to another provider, you are within your rights to request a transfer:

A Stream Participant [Newstart recipient] may, at any time be transferred from the provider to another Employment Provider:

  1. by DHS or the Department, where the Stream Participant moves to a new location that is not within a reasonable distance of a Site of the Provider

                                                                                                                                                       Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, Section 81.1

When a Stream Participant notifies the Department of Human Services or their Employment Provider that they have changed their address, the Department’s IT Systems will determine whether the Stream Participant needs to be transferred.

The determination will be based on whether:

  • the Stream Participant has moved to a new Employment Region
  • the Stream Participant’s current Employment Provider has a Site that services their new address
  • the Stream Participant has relocated to a remote location covered by the Remote Jobs and Communities Programme (not covered by this Guideline).

Note: Employment Provider Sites are mapped to postcodes in the Department’s IT Systems.

Where the Stream Participant changes their address and their current Employment Provider has a Site that services their new residential postcode, the Stream Participant will be automatically transferred to that Site (unless they are already connected to that Site).

Where the Stream Participant’s new address is not serviced by a Site of their current Employment Provider, the Department’s IT Systems will automatically transfer the Stream Participant to another Employment Provider in accordance with clause 81.1(a) of the Deed.

Note: Where the Stream Participant wishes to remain with their current Employment Provider, they can request a transfer back to a Site of their current Employment Provider in accordance with this Guideline.

Note: The exception to this transfer process is where a Stream Participant is subject to a Relocation Assistance to Take Up a Job Agreement. In this case the Stream Participant will not be transferred as a result of a change of address

Transfers Guideline, p. 2

1.5.1   Changing Providers by Agreement

Stream Participants may transfer to a new Employment Provider if their current Employment Provider, their proposed Employment Provider and the Stream Participant all agree to the transfer

A request for a transfer by agreement must be completed by both the current and proposed Employment Providers and the Stream Participant.

There are two options for lodgement:

  1. Lodgement on the Australian JobSearch website
  • A request for a transfer by agreement can be lodged electronically via the Australian JobSearch website [call the JobSearch website on 13 62 68 for advise]
  • The Stream Participant commences the process by lodging a request on the Australian JobSearch website. The Stream Participant’s request will first be sent to the proposed Employment Provider for agreement
  • If the proposed Employment Provider agrees, the transfer request will be sent to the Stream Participant’s current Employment Provider.

If both Employment Providers agree, the Stream Participant will be automatically transferred. The current and proposed Employment Providers must action the request for a transfer by agreement within three business days of receiving the request otherwise the request will be automatically declined.

Note: If either the current or the proposed Employment Provider declines the request, the transfer will not be actioned and the reason will be entered into the online form. The form will then be sent to the Stream Participant.

  1. Lodgement through the Employment Services System (ESS)

A transfer by agreement request can also be lodged in the Department’s IT Systems using the Transfer by Agreement Form, which is available on the Provider Portal and the Department’s public website:

 

  • When all parties agree and sign theTransfer by Agreement Form, the current Employment Provider must enter the details into the Department’s IT Systems to action the transfer. The current Employment Provider must retain a copy of the signed form
  • Where either the current or the proposed Employment Provider declines the transfer request, they should be informed of the outcome of the request.

 

Note: Stream Participants with a current Level 3 Incident Report (refer to the Servicing Job Seekers with Challenging Behaviours Guideline) and Pre-release Prisoners cannot have their transfer completed through the Australian JobSearch website.

 

The Employment Provider of a Stream Participant with a current Level 3 Incident Report (including Pre-release Prisoners) must contact the Department’s Employment Systems Help Desk on 1300 305 520 to facilitate a transfer where agreement has been reached by all parties. Pre-release Prisoners will need to use the Transfer by Agreement Form which the current Employment Provider must lodge using ESS, as outlined above.

  Transfers Guideline, p. 2-3

1.5.2   Changing Providers Due to Relationship Failure

A stream Participant may, at any time, be transferred from the Provider to another Employment Provider by the Department where the Department is satisfied that:

 

  1. The Stream Participant [Newstart recipient] will receive services that could better enhance their Employment prospects from the other Employment Provider; or
  2. The Stream Participant and the Provider are unable to achieve or maintain a reasonable and constructive servicing relationship, as determined by the Department

 Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (b)

 

Where the Department determines that the relationship between the Employment Provider and the Stream Participant has broken down, the Department will transfer the Stream Participant to another Employment Provider (see clause 81.1(b) of the Deed) where one is available.

 

Stream Participant initiated request

Where a Stream Participant considers that it cannot maintain a reasonable and constructive relationship with their Employment Provider, they can contact the Department’s National Customer Service Line. A customer service officer will record the request and help to make the transfer where appropriate.

Employment Provider initiated request

Where an Employment Provider considers that it cannot maintain a reasonable and constructive servicing relationship with a Stream Participant, it can complete the Transfer Due to Relationship Failure Form and forward this to the Department’s National Customer Service Line for investigation. The Department will consider the request based on the evidence provided, including whether the Employment Provider has followed the process outlined in the Servicing Job Seekers with Challenging Behaviours Guideline.

Approval/transfer process

Where the Department’s National Customer Service Line approves a transfer due to relationship failure, it will select an alternative Employment Provider where one is available. In doing so it will take into account a range of factors, including Star Ratings and provider location, and facilitate the transfer of the Stream Participant. The Stream Participant will be sent a letter advising them of their new Employment Provider and the date and time of their next appointment.

Where the Department’s National Customer Service Line does not approve the transfer, it will notify the Employment Provider and/or the Stream Participant in writing. If the Employment Provider and/or Stream Participant are not satisfied with the outcome, they can request a review of the decision by notifying the Department’s National Customer Service Line in writing within 14 business days of the original decision.

Review process

Where the Employment Provider and/or Stream Participant request a review of the original decision, it will be undertaken by a Departmental officer who was not involved in the original approval process. In undertaking the review, the Departmental officer should consider whether the Employment Provider has applied the strategies outlined in the Servicing Job Seekers with Challenging Behaviours Guideline.

If the outcome of the review is that the request for transfer is approved, the Department’s National Customer Service Line will action the transfer using the process outlined earlier in this section.

Where the outcome of the review is that the request for transfer is not approved, the Employment Provider and/or Stream Participant will be notified in writing and the Employment Provider must continue to provide Services to the Stream Participant.

Transfers Guideline, p. 4

 

1.5.3   Changing Providers for Better Servicing

 

A stream Participant may, at any time, be transferred from the Provider to another Employment Provider by the Department where the Department is satisfied that:

 

  1. The Stream Participant [Newstart recipient] will receive services that could better enhance their Employment prospects from the other Employment Provider; or
  2. The Stream Participant and the Provider are unable to achieve or maintain a reasonable and constructive servicing relationship, as determined by the Department

Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (b)

 

Where a Stream Participant has demonstrated to the Department’s satisfaction that they will receive better Services from another Employment Provider, the Stream Participant may be transferred to that Employment Provider (see clause 81.1(b)).

 

To request a transfer, a Stream Participant may contact the Department’s National Customer Service Line, which will assess the request. Where the Department determines that the Stream Participant has demonstrated that they will receive better servicing from another Employment Provider, the Department will action the transfer. Where the Department does not agree to the request, the Stream Participant will be informed of the decision.

Transfers Guideline, p.4 

1.5.4   Changing Providers Due to ‘Maximum Time with Provider’ Policy

A stream Participant may, at any time, be transferred from the Provider to another Employment Provider by the Department where:

 

  1. a Stream A Participant’s Period of Registration exceeds 24 months; or
  2. a Stream B Participant or Stream C Participant’s of Registration exceeds 36 months; and
  • they remain unemployed

unless:

  1. the Stream Participant achieves an Employment Outcome, in which case the time under clause 81.1(d) (i) and (ii) runs from the date of the achievement of the Outcome; or
  2. there is no available Employment Provider in the relevant Employment Region for the Stream Participant to transfer to.

Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (d)

Additionally, please note that:

  • The Period of Registration pauses for Suspensions
  • Under the Maximum Time with Provider policy the term ‘remain unemployed’ means that the Employment Provider has not claimed a Full Outcome or Partial Outcome for the Stream Participant over the relevant period. When an Outcome Payment is claimed, a new two-year/three-year period commences.

The maximum time with provider transfer will not occur when a Stream Participant is:

 

  • commenced in a job placement that is tracking towards an Outcome Payment
  • participating in a work for the dole place or other activity to meet their annual activity requirement
  • relocating for employment through Relocation Assistance to Take Up a Job, has signed agreement in place and has an ‘expected to start’ job placement recorded in the Department’s IT Systems.

 

When the Job Seeker Placement ends or the Job Seeker Placement does not lead to a four-week or 12-week Outcome Payment, the Stream Participant will be transferred. When the participation in the Work for the Dole Place or other activity ends the Stream Participant will be transferred.

The Department will take into account a range of factors when determining which Employment Provider the Stream Participant will transfer to, including the Stream Participant’s proximity to the gaining Employment Provider; and the gaining Employment Provider’s Star Rating.

Where a Stream Participant is transferred under the Maximum Time with Provider policy, the Stream Participant can request a transfer for better servicing or transfer by agreement. However, they cannot move back to their original Employment Provider unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Transfers Guideline, p.5

280 comments

  1. Max Employment has only Word Pad available on the computers that job seekers can use. So you cant write or edit a resume or covering letter on them. Which you need to do, if you are going to apply for jobs. Word pad does not produce high quality documents and does not always maintain its format, when opened by prospective employers.

    They also expect job seekers to attend the office 3 times a week, for an hour at a time. They say its for job search. Well you can search, but what will you apply with. These are listed as appointments on their system, so being late or unable to attend, means that a message is sent to Centrelink, to cancel your income support. This happened to me, when a Max employee, forgot to tell her computer, that I had attended. It caused me a lot of hassle, and I was treated as though it was my fault.

    1. Hi Rachel,
      I agree completely with the whole Max Connect disconnect situation. I have had my centrelink benefits halted and/or cut off 7 times now for appointments with Max that I didn.t keep.
      That I didn’t know about.
      That THEY had not notified me about.
      As with you, I was made to feel the culprit as they grudgingly adjusted records (in the wrong name).
      Hopeless does not even begin to cover it.
      Do we have any rights at all?
      Apparently not…
      Anyway, good luck. I know how you feel!

      1. Yes that is really bad. My jobactive provider is terrible and as bad as what you guys have written about, I am now considering changing providers but to who I don’t know? I have been accused of not having enough interviews, managed to score one last week and told them, but no it’s not good enough, I am trying to get a job but it’s very hard. Along with many other blatantly incorrect accusations and severe bullying, my stupid consultant told me my Certificate 1V in Disability is exactly the same as a Certificate in Aged Care, I verified with training school and jobactive idiots are wrong! Incidentally I cannot get a job as a Disability Support Worker due to no experience, even though I hold a Cert 1V in Disability and did a work placement to gain experience as part of that course.

        My jobactive provider is: EMPLOYMENT SERVICES GROUP. They are useless and their treatment of myself and many other jobseekers is awful, I witness their abuse of other jobseekers when I go there for my job search sessions. So I sympathise with all other jobseekers and the members of this union who have to deal with these counter-productive cretins.

        1. I personally am struggling with EMPLOYMENT SERVICES GROUP in NSW also. I am currently receiving Centrelink payment benefits because I only have casual employment. I personally feel so disrespected and they are always rude to me. I’ve had so many employment consultant changes its insane. Its a joke! Seriously I am changing locations in hope that they will have more brains and show me more respect that I deserve and not let me walk out the door feeling more depressed and stressed than I feel already everyday that I get out of bed. I feel your pain! They treat me like I’m unemployed but I technically have a casual job.

          1. i was with them in liverpool they are the worst i have come across unprofessional ,rude and careless . i have reported them to everyone.

          2. At least you can walk out the door. I am in a wheelchair and these people treat me like I am worse than a pile of shit.

          3. Can I ask which branch you are with? My daughter is having terrible trouble with them atm. She needs to do practical work for the course she is doing, and they are trying to force her onto work for the dole

      2. I feel you Matt, I had the exact same thing happen to me several times. Max Employment is so disorganised and unprofessional. I’ve been unhappy with them since I started there but I’ve now reached my limit!

        1. These providers cause that much stress ,uncertainty and de-value our lives they haven’t even got the spleen or the will to lift a finger.
          There sole purpose is being Centerlinks big brother and stuff their 3 a week check up on us job search crock.
          A lot of us have laptops at home with password managers and use OSX not their shitty outdated wordpad/MS stuff.
          I can’t use that and I will tell them so if they try ram that crap down my throat.

      3. Do we have to get our current provider to sign the form? I’m having personal issues with my case worker and I don’t really feel comfortable approaching them. I haven’t been happy with her for a while. But recently she put me forward for a job I wasn’t comfortable with without telling me first. I have anxiety and so I told her I can’t work in certain situations and this job was not suitable for me and her reaction was completely inappropriate. She told me she couldn’t accept that as an answer and basically insinuated I was making it up or exaggerating to get out of it. I had a meeting with her a few days after and I was expecting her to, in the least ask if I was feeling better, or even offer some help for me, but she didn’t even acknowledge what happened. I feel like she’s not taking my issues seriously or just doesn’t care, but I don’t feel comfortable talking to her about it because of how she’s reacted previously. Is there any way I can change providers without having to personally approach my current one?

        1. I just applied to change online via the link in the form.
          You need to link jobactive with your mygov account after you do that go to the jobactive site through mygov and you can apply to change providers it is one of the quick links.

        2. Just go along with her dumb ass idea and then when shit hits the fan at work then go back to her in full view of others and fully blast and name and shame and point the finger at her yelling….”see I told you didn’t I”!
          “But no…..you would not listen!”

        3. I am in a similar situation and I don’t feel comfortable speaking with my job coach directly and I have applied for a transfer but my anxiety is making me worry about a potential conversation with her

        1. me to i have asked for a transfer from max employment to elizabeth south australia.. did noithing for me ither. and took two payments when i phoned up explaining why missed appointments through being sick,and now denying they gave me the transfer paper im expected to ask my new job provider to send them proff im with a new provider. . who i will be with. they are the worse job providers that place is going to shit. and saying i missed appointments when i saw them the next day after ringing

          1. Max Employment are completely useless. I was with them for a couple month and had 3 consultants during that time the first one forced me into any job she could find me just so she could get her bonuses. The second one was also useless and I felt very uncomfortable talking to him the third one was the one that made me leave I couldn’t take being treated like I’m worthless anymore. She called me one day and asked me to go into the office I explained I would take a while because I was far then when I got there she was waiting at the front and started yelling at me in front of the whole office I was in shock as this was only my second time meeting her she told me I’m always late for appointments and refuse every job I’m given?? I have literally never been late to any appointment I’m always on time and always do what I’m told. I have severe anxiety so it rare when I actually do speak up because I have no confidence and low self-esteem. But I replied to her and asked when I am late please tell me a day when I’ve been late and when I’ve refused a job she completely ignored me and told me to wait for her. I left that office in tears I’ve never been treated with such disrespect. I transferred to wise employment and it was ok in the beginning but I have just gotten a new consultant and she is another person that has no regard for my feelings at all she told me she wants to put extra pressure on me and get me in the office as much as she can and wants me to dress in formal attire each time I see her? I don’t really understand the purpose of that I’m not a child I know exactly what to wear to interviews I find these requests ridiculous. I already have depression and anxiety and don’t need to feel more stressed anxiety when I go there I can’t believe these people actually have jobs making peoples lives worse.

      4. Im feeling everyone’s pain here; I have been with mission providence for a year and not once in a year did they organise a job interview for me. I wanted to leave many times but they kept manipulating me into staying and giving them a chance. I’m absolutely fed up with this stupid service that is so unhelpful! They have changed me from workers in a year 5times already! And don’t provide help to my needs. Its frustrating as Centrelink is telling me they can’t help me with transferring unless I provide a medical certificate. Well well well; I have provided already 3 certificates. But clearly it’s not enough! Do I have to break a leg to get my point across??

          1. I think being cunts is part of thier job discription
            Im with APM ( atrocious pile of manure ) l had my centrelink cut off because l chose to go to work rather than see them.
            When l rang stupid didnt even know who told me to ring or why. Have asked 6 ++++ to leave but they wont let me.
            Centrelink has given them too much power.
            Id rather starve than have to deal with them.

        1. Mission Providence reworded via Thesaurus …..Operation Accident. I had to call the office in Bondi Junction and the person who answered the phone could not speak english. After my fourth attempt to decipher the jibber, I politely advised them that I was having trouble understanding them and asked if it were possible for me to speak with someone else.
          “Me no understanning of you saying either” .[CLICK…BEEP …BEEP ….BEEP]
          Hung up on me.
          I called back & recounted what had just happened to the person who answered the phone “put thru now”
          It was the Hanger Upper, no apology, not even a far fetched lie..
          The phone is answered, unbelievably i can’t make out the sub sonic mumbles & am left with few options besides “I beg your pardon?”
          “yeah, who is it?”. Maybe i had heard it the first time but second guessed my hearing.
          “Who is it?” I repeated back into the phone ” Who are you?”
          “sorry buddy I’m just with a client can i call u back in 5?”
          I briefly recounted the hanging up episode, which they promptly dealt with
          “yeah we are understaffed there is only the two of us here i will sort everything out and call u back in 5 ok buddy? Yeah? Ok I’ve sorted everything out for you ok buddy, i promise i will call you in five”
          If he had called me in 5 months I would have been impressed given that he had no idea who he was talking to. Nothing was sorted, months of hardship followed. Such incompetent people have the capacity to interfere with my payments without recourse, on the contrary, they probably received a bonus payment for assisting another “client” to leave the welfare system.

    2. I have had the same issues with Max Employment. Their SUPER SLOW PC’s only enable me to apply for 2-3 positions average in the 1/2 hour they make you do “intensive job searching”. Hahaha What a joke! I can apply for double that amount at home, and I do, they know I far exceed the 20 jobs a month expected of me, 182 one day!

      Also, twice I have been told not to attend appointments, only to be penalised by having my benefits suspended as I failed to attend! Not only is this annoying it’s embarassing. I do the right things, always have, yet run into hassles from “the powers that be”.

      My last job club wasn’t much better, with some small Indian women speaking to me like I was a piece of crap! My dad happened to be with me and asked me “what’s wrong with mini-Hitler”? I rang her manager to tell her I was changing clubs, strangely we’d worked together before, she asked me to stay and she promised mini-Hitler was no longer allowed to speak to me. It was hilarious seeing her running around the office getting forms, etc, all the time not allowed to utter one word to me. REVENGE!!!

      We all know, or should know, these “job clubs” are a joke. They make money at the sake of others hardship. I have never known anyone, with any job club, to get a job. And I know quite a few people who are unemployed. Let’s face it, IF they got everyone jobs today, they’d be unemployed tomorrow. So, in many ways, it’s not in their best interests to find clients work.

      1. I could not imagine anything worse than an arrogant Indian woman JSA case provider.
        In fact however they aren’t really much different from the rest of the lowlifes at Max

      2. I’ve had the same problems with Jobs statewide. I spent 1/2 hr just trying to change a couple of paragraphs on a word document and then print them. On one of 6 computers. At Salisbury (20 mins away) when my provider is supposed to be Elizabeth. Because over 6 months ago they had ‘flooding’ (on the second floor?) and due to ‘liability and insurance issues’ no one at the Elizabeth branch can use a PC unless the job club has room.
        And I found a couple of interviews on my own, but I have only been provided ONE interview by my case worker in a YEAR. So I have to apply for 20 jobs per month (240 per year people!) and they have helped me with almost nothing. Less than 0.5% compared to my efforts.
        And putting that many resumes online has left me vulnerable to scammers and course recruiters (yes, I’ve had a few phone calls asking me to SPEND money instead of offering a way to make money).

    3. I no longer recieve benefits but am continuously harrassed with calls/texts (even on Saturdays) from Max employment. When I was getting support from them it was very limited, I was made to feel inadequate. Now my son is having trouble, he has his money suspended more often than not because of their system & just recently he completed a training course & work placement but was still expected to attend an app while at this work placement. He will now spend a couple of days trying to get his money reconnected because he was marked as non compliant while at work placement… Poor communication, poor people skills, poor management. Overall I’m disgusted.

  2. I go to Max employment 3 times a week for 4 hours each day. Ridiculous as I have to sit at a computer the whole time and we are not aloud to talk. Talk about treating us like little school kids. Why can’t they just do what they are payed for and get us a job? I am thinking of giving them the flick and going it along as I think I have more change of finding a job that way.

  3. I only completed my 4-5 of my job searches per month due to Centrelink telling me I could stop now that I study full time, and was verbally assaulted by a staff member of the job provider I go to, until I was in tears, after 20 minutes I went to walk out and she called me back to sign paperwork and read out every paragraph saying after each one ‘Do you understand that?’ I was told that I didn’t have any rights and if I still want to get paid I better sign it and I have to continue to search for 20 jobs and go to appointments at 9.30AM knowing that I couldn’t attend.

    1. Caitlan, you have rights and they must abide by them. The staff member has no right to speak to you in this manner, you should speak to the manager or even ask to get a transfer to another provider as you have every right to do this. I spoke to Centrelink about if I did a course would I still have to go into employment agency and they said it was up to the agency which is not right as long as you are doing your required hours whether it be study, work for the dole or jobsearch that is all you need do as far as I understand. Good luck!

    2. Hi Caitlan,
      You made your post some time ago so perhaps you have sorted out your issues with your provider or are not checking this site anymore but just in case you are still reading responses (or for anyone this might help)…
      If you course if full-time and is Austudy approved (don’t just assume it will be, check with the uni/TAFE etc you are studying with and make sure), put in an application for Austudy immediately. If you are no longer receiving Newstart you do not have to be attached to a Job Network Provider but do not stop attending your appointments and doing what you need to do with them UNTIL your Austudy application is approved and you begin receiving this payment. Until then you are still receiving Newstart and so must meet your obligations, including being signed up with a provider, looking for work, attending appointments etc. If your study is not Austudy approved or for some reason you do not qualify for Austudy, change Job Network Providers, you have the right to do this if they are abusive towards you, and do not let anyone tell you do not have the right to go elsewhere.
      Good luck

  4. I am getting stressed with my employment service provider . They put me on an approved activities which is a stupid course for jobseekers with intellectual problems or whose English is equivalent to preschool level. When I requested to them to change my plan coz I wish to pursue a course which is more productive , they insist I should do this course and they cannot change because it had already commenced . I have no choice .Either to continue the idiot course or get myself off the Centrelink system in order to pursue a qualification that enhance my employability.

    In other occasions, they threaten to put me in WFD which I am incapable of doing on the ground of my health. . I feel stress and nervous when monthly appointment approaches.

    Is it legitimate to request for a change in job plan at WFD phase because the activity is meaningless for me. Well they say they can’t the plan as far as WFD activities is concern.

    I do wish to transfer on other grounds because the job center I attend is not close to public transport and I can’t drive owing to health issues

  5. I’m with sure ways in Wonthaggi.Ive been with sure ways for nearly 12months,had no success with them at all,they are failing to find jobs in my area,why aren’t they out canvassing employers,offering them incentives to employ people.As of tomorrow I now not only have to sign up for work for the dole program but also increase my job search efforts from 5 to 10 jobs per month.Thats said.good considering I don’t own a vehicle they just don’t get it,There is no longer any kind of care factor,they only worry about ther own job security.Also I’m computer literate,have to record my job efforts on line easier said than done.

  6. hi,
    Just had my first and last disconnect for not attending a meeting I was not notified of, as it is the final straw with Max Employment. – I note that per your guidelines and on speaking to the Department of Employment Customer Service Line on 1800 805 260, if dealing with them direct you still must fill out the form. What I found MUCH MUCH easier, is going to my gov and job seekers then pull up your profile and you can just click to change providers. The drop down choices are similar but not exact to the guidelines per above. Otherwise if you download a form, it must be taken to the existing provider and the new provider. The easier way does it all automatically (yay)

    1. I’m not seeing “Job Seekers” in my MyGov, is this perhaps because i haven’t got the Australian JobSearch service linked? I guess i’ll link that and see what happens..

    2. Oh really can change. Because they told me to get the transfer by agreement form from my current employment provider to sign the document and then go to the new provider i choose to transfer to give the form.

    3. The fail me big time classic hallmarks(sat on there asses for 3 months done SFA) are already showing with my “provider” so looks like I will need to change to something a lot better myself too.
      Is there any such thing as better JSA I’m with @work australia

      @work as in @work yesterweek/month/year…….sigh!

  7. I’m currently with Employment Service Group, and i must admit that i’m a rather anxious person (which it seems they barely want to acknowledge, and when they do, it almost as if they feel put out by it).

    Also the other issue seems to be that they are constantly changing things, as of my last appointment, apparently i’m going to be moved on to my fourth “job coach” (within around a year), plus they seem to want to change how things are done (for whatever reasons), which doesn’t seem to help with the anxiety also.

    Also my last appointment, i felt as if my current job coach was almost “poking the bear” as they say (when it came to my anxiety), some of her comments seem rather insensitive, almost as if to get me anxious.

    So i’m not really sure what to do, whether i should change to a new provider or see what the next job coach is like. Though tbh i get the sense that these providers/job coaches are all rather the same, perhaps i am wrong?

    1. Out of interest, does anyone know what impact changing jobactive providers would have on work for the dole, tbh i’m rather happy with that. Are they likely to change it, if i were to go to a different provider?

      1. Not sure but I’m sure if you’re happy doing it they shouldn’t have to change it. I think you’d have to talk to the provider you’re with

    2. Job providers aren’t aware of how to deal with people who have anxiety or any mental health issues really. There is disability job providers trained to work with those who suffer with a disability or injury but those of us with mental health issues are stuffed. We get no support. Every person is different and need different support. I think you should be able to provide a certificate from the doctor and say look I have anxiety and you need to take that into account and work with me around my illness to find employment and maintain it. Not everyone is trying to rig the system some people are suffering mentally and just because they can’t see it they think people are lazy and don’t want to work thats not the case. Maybe if the workers were trained better and actually knew how to work with diverse individuals they’d have better relationships with their clients, productivity and positive out-comes.

    3. TL;DR: I’ve been to 3 job agencies (2 DSP and 1 normal) and considering everyone here and on other sites are complaining about the same thing, I’d say it’s a good enough proof they’re devils with a mask.

      Rant:
      I’ve had severe anxiety, anger and depression issues for 7 years now. I actually have physical symptoms from these problems. But these ‘case workers’ are pretty much saying ‘if you’re not missing a limb, you’re gonna be treated just like a normal person’. Their exact words were, “Unless it’s gotten worse, we can’t give you leniency”. I feel like saying ‘Wait here, let me get a heart attack or jump in front of a car and die first, maybe that’ll get your attention’ to their stupid faces.

      1. They don’t acknowledge your problems, it seems like it goes in left ear went out right ear. “Yes, yes, we understand. No, oh no! We’re definitely not forcing you/pushing you too hard to make you relapse”. Give it a couple of minutes and what she really meant to say comes out. “But centerlink says blablabla…otherwise centerlink this, centerlink that”. I feel like saying “Bitch for once in your entire miserable fucking life, be truly helpful to another human being instead of being a fucking sheep”.
      2. It feels like they only care about filling in their ‘quota’ and getting us to come in according to their convenience (not our health/conditions) so they get those payments govt gives to their organization.
      And 3, worst of all, the moment you start making an effort to negotiate ‘agreed’ actions that actually harm you more rather than helping you, to make yourself BETTER, you get the ‘but our policy is blablabla, centerlink says blablabla’ nonsense again.

      I managed to wiggle my way around so things were moving at my pace. And believe it or not, when it WAS at my pace, I got better. I finally literally just got better 2 months ago, actually managed to land myself a promising interview (they had to turn me down ’cause I have a holiday at Christmas. Said to come for another interview 1st half of 2017), and then out of the blue they swapped my good case worker to a shit one, had a falling out, pretty much kicked out of the old agency and got transferred to a new DSP. I thought ‘Oh, centerlink was so positive of this one, maybe this might actually helped me’. Man was I wrong. The instant I started to trust another human was the start of my downfall again. Now this new DSP worker says things with a fake smile, deaf ears and fake ass ‘support’….and unsurprisingly, here I am on the verge of relapse, back to suicidal and ready to say fuck all to everything.

      I’m putting this ‘Change providers’ as a last option before fuck all. I’ve got enough savings for my family to survive on for 20 weeks/ After that, I don’t even know. I’ve got an interview when I’m back from what could be my last holiday with my parents in my life, I’ve got plans to go back to school but if that all fell through, that’s it. I’m just done. I’m fucking done. I’m tired.

      1. I had a phone appointment just then. And I finally got the ‘Everything’s your fault, your responsibility. EVERYTHING” treatment. They know I have anxiety, and when I called them to have the phone appointment 3 days ago, I got the ‘But our policy…” bull. If you think logically, wtf do you even talk about on a phone appointment? And if you think logically, the fact that she could answer the phone means that she wasn’t even seeing anyone, and the phone appointment I had literally only took 5 mins without all her bullshit. 5 mins was all it took and she made me suffer 3 days. I called again 2 hours earlier than the actual schedule and she gave me the same bullshit. 3 pm came and no calls, so I called her and now she started playing the victim card. Apparently my phone number with centerlink isn’t updated, even though clearly when I threw my old SIM out, I did that straight away. I get the feeling that these pieces of shits play the same cards with everyone. “But our policy…”, “But centerlink says…”, “That’s because you blablabla, and that is your responsibility blablabla”. They’re pretty much saying ‘no matter what we do to you, you need to not be angry and respect me like I’m the fucking king’. Dumbass bitches on a power trip.

        I get the feeling these guys are only doing these ‘appointments’ to make us feel like a prisoner. I literally feel humiliated and degraded right now. It’s disgusting how they think that everything’s our fault. Little did they know, THEY caused these symptoms I have to get worse. The way THEY work is what made the problem this big to begin with, and that their ways aren’t working. But then it’s useless to call them out on it because it always falls on deaf ears and worse, they play the ‘it’s always my fault’ card.

        I feel like all this is a conspiracy. The govt knows they can’t give employment to everyone. Society definitely needs someone lower than them to feel good about themselves, so they can look down on someone. The govt then creates a program that fucks you up so much, gives you so much bullshit promises and hopes and when you actually want to put the effort in getting better, they suddenly lock all doors to all paths so you’re stuck like a miserable loser that society wants you to be. And the process repeats again.

        Once I have a job, I’m leaving centerlink. Enough wage or not. No one should be on this mental torture. This program is fuel to ‘keeping you a prisoner in your own mind and world’.

  8. I hate my employment provider and im on DES. Everything i do unsatisfied with my consultant she always gets upset with me because its not according to her standards. She is very unhelpful, not understanding and pushing you to get a job asap which hard to get a job asap. She says i dont attend which for the fact shes lieing because i always go to my job search days. I really don’t like their services. Thats why i really want to transfer to another provider!!

    When i go there im always unhappy. I don’t like being treated like this at all.

    1. Try to change send an email to the job agency manager go o the website or go into centrelink i don’t know if they can help though because apparently its changed and if you’re a job agency client they can’t help you or something. I’m finding mine very unhelpful also. Your not alone, they screw lots of people around who don’t deserve it. I wish they’d realize every individual is different and needs a support system and job plan thats right for them and their circumstances. Pushing doesn’t work. I’m working and their still pushing me for goodness sake. The system needs some serious re-thinking. Hope it all works out for you.

  9. Thanks for this information. I am struggling with centrelink and my job provider. I am working part time and studying a part time course. Apparently this isn’t meeting my requirements for my youth allowance or so my job provider says so. She said quit my new job and study full time or work full time. I’m sorry but I can not just study full time and not work I want to better myself and gain experience in the work force and my job is letting me do that. I am studying a dual certificate IV in mental health and disability and will be completed in 18 months. That’s not that long in the grand means of things and she tried to convince me I was making a mistake and tried to convince me to do some other course the agency has coming up which she had no information on! They wan’t you to get a job and study I’m doing both. But it’s not enough. I know you can combine the hours of study and work to meet mutual obligation requirements but she didn’t even tell me that I had to look it up after she freaked me out and made me stress and doubt what I should be doing.
    She says it’s all a bad idea because it doesn’t fit into their little boxes they need to tick. They also get commission for everyone they get a job and sign up into a course they have. So because I found my own job and my own course she was discouraging.
    Every individual’s circumstances are different not everyone can do the same things.
    They should understand that. They should work with people to reach their goals and support them. I am working I am studying so I don’t understand. They aren’t supposed to stress you out cause you anxiety and make you depressed.

    1. I had a similar issue. I found my own job and work just over 25hrs a week but my case worker asked for my payslips so she can report for me. I told her I had no issues reporting for myself.

  10. Your Transfer Request to transfer from your current Employment Provider to the below listed Employment Provider is awaiting approval.

    I guess it’s just a matter of waiting now.

    1. Dear Bradley

      Your proposed Employment Provider, failed to action your transfer request within the required timeframe. Your request was auto-declined by the IT system.

      Kind Regards,
      The Department of Employment

      Oh that went well 😐

      1. Oh Lol, what I have to look forward too. What a complete waste of our time. This must be a joke. Tell me I’m dreaming. A nightmare …..

  11. That happened to me too.This morning I checked my myGov account and received the same message.I have tried again with a different job active provider.I hope it works this time.

  12. I recommend calling the Department of Employment Customer Service.I called them this morning and was immediately transferred to a different job active provider.You just need a valid reason to transfer.

    1. The fact that IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THEM AND IT FOR AT LEAST ONCE SHOULD OF BEEN MORE AN INDIVIDUAL WHAT ABOUT ME/YOU CASE……should be valid enough reason to switch providers.
      The fact that you are deserving of so much better and you know it and they don’t which is what stresses you out also should be valid reason.

  13. Well i emailed the form to someone at the job active provider that i want to go to, and hopefully she is now dealing with it. Though sadly i’m still with ESG, and to add to why i’m glad i’m going elsewhere, i have been waiting for over 2 hours for a “phone contact appointment” with them. I realise they stated after 1:30 pm, but come on, it’s closing in on 2 and 1/2 hours, am i just meant to wait upon them?

  14. Well I thought I’d give you an update. So I tried to get my current provider and the one I’m hoping to go to fill out the form, and each is saying the other needs to fill it out first.

    Then I decided to contact the Department’s National Customer Service Line, and apparently they can only transfer you the once, so if you want to transfer in the future, you are stuck.

    They suggested to continue trying to get the transfer by agreement, even to do it online again (despite the fact that it timed out previously, though perhaps this time send an email to the site manager (which I don’t know who is) of the potential job provider).

    Surely this process is meant to be easier? I don’t really know what else to do.

    Oh and now the provider i wanted to go to, just emailed me saying..

    Unfortunately we will need to check our capacity to your streaming before either approving or declining,
    But due to ESG’s process, WISE will be unable to accept this transfer.
    There are different Job Active providers who will sign the paperwork before your current provider,
    You may have better luck with them, here is a list.

  15. Honestly, max employment is by far the most punitive job provider I’ve ever come upon. I question everything and often refuse to sign their garbage even when they threaten the usual no sign no dole speak. Hence I’ve become a marked target and have had several disagreements with staff over unprofessional conduct. My benefits are routinely suspended now for over the last three months because I refuse to curtail to their draconian regime when effectively I achieve nothing besides frustration and another low blow to my self esteem when ever I go there .. No privacy, not even a f’n screen and group motivational sessions to supposedly what? That staff play god with my income each fortnight can’t be right. They twice told me to transfer to another provider. I’ve lodged complaints with dhhs three times verbally over the phone and the fourth they supposedly contact max employments complaint area and three weeks later I’ve still not had anyone contact me to arrange any kind of mediation. So I get another text telling me I have an appointment the next day .. Great notice, and get told I’m now on wfd without any consultation and I’ve only got one choice and that’s the salvos op shop in my country town. Still no conversation or acknowledge meant I even made a complaint. They don’t reply my emails yet expect my total compliance and cooperation. Private for profit enterprises running a government responsibility was always going to be a bad idea. I now have proof. Great. And they’ve been contracted for five years? How does this happen? Not happy. Myriads of other grievances but you get the picture. Sadly.

    1. I hear you Ash and feel your pain. Max Employment has proven one of my biggest mistakes! I was threatened last week by new “girl” who is taking over my prior guy (who was older and treated me with respect) I HAD to provide payslips or she’s MAKE me work for someone for free! I did as requested, only to discover from the kind folk who run this site, there is no legislation stating they deserved that information.

      I have since written to state that, and I will provide my work hours, nothing more. I added I am offended having to provide them with what I earn, it’s akin to asking to see her or her managers payslips.

      1. HI Abyss,
        Can you possibly direct me to the relevant page regarding not having to supply payslips? My job provider want mine and I feel it is none of their business and do not wish to provide them……….I told them I would be investigating my rights before I provided payslips, when thy used the excuse they wanted to make sure I reported correctly and didn’t incur a debt I told them “I have been reporting to Centrelink longer than “job provider” was even an employment option in Australia, and longer than her position even existed within society, haven’t incurred a debt, not likely to now. They were not happy and are starting a witchhunt I feel. I would like to arm myself with as much information as I can 🙂
        Thanks

        1. Mine recently called me and asked me for my email address because thet wanted to send me an email about me sending them a copy of my payslips. I thought this was a little odd so I asked them why they wanted a copy of them.and they weren’t very explanitory other then “to create a paper trail with centrelink” my guess is that maybe they think I am trying to do the dodgy and say I have a job so I don’t have to look for work but I have been reporting. Lo and behold though, this was wednesday last week, it’s now Monday and still have not received any email from them. I was going to chase them up on it out of doing the wrong thing by centrelink due to all the dramas we’ve had with them causing us debts because someone on their end put in the information we gave them wrong! Now have nearly had several anxiety attacks since wednesday because of this. Now questioning if I need to provide these payslips or not, so any info to back up my not needing to do so is really needed!

  16. Oh, I forgot to mention the high staff turnover at this one particular branch I have to endure .. Incredible. I rarely see the same face twice when I do actually go now which is once per fortnight, to it thru one more lecture and nod and smile just to get my fortnightly payments. Then ignore them to another fortnight. It is an insult to my intelligence having to go there

  17. Argh ESG, had an appointment today, how can someone trying to seem considerate be so inconsiderate. Oh and of course they tried to put through the transfer and it was the other job provider that rejected it. I must of not had a “legitimate reason”, they deemed that based on a couple words on a form? It’s harder to get a transfer now and they essentially do the same job anyway blah blah. Yeah but I’m sure they are less two faced and more compassionate elsewhere.

  18. Not sure if some of you might be aware of the star rating system.

    Each Job Active provider is rated by stars, based on feedback that the clients provide and how they see the services of the provider are working for them. In short, the more stars, apparently the better they are at keeping their clients happy & engaged.

    The ratings can be found on the Job Active website under the provider search option.

    The manual Request For Transfer form can take up to 2 weeks for DEEWR (dept of education, employment & workplace relations) to process

  19. I am with a JSP who doesn’t seem interested in me finding a job. I have asked if they can help me get my first aid certificate as to get a job in the industry I work in I need it, 1 told me that I am too old and people wont employ me (58) . I then got told that they wont help pay for it so I rang Centrelink who weren’t interested either but said they get funding to pay for it. I have to ring them in the morning and ask to speak to the manager about it. For 7 weeks I had to attend a back on track program which has now been suspended due to the trainer being sacked. He was also meant to send off mine and 2 others DCSI paper work for us and he never did, they are a joke and I am getting so stressed out as I don’t have any money left after paying my rent and I need a job but they wont help

    1. There as useless as these “recruiters/consultants” who advertise there jobs on seek.com which is in fact a JOB website….but the recruiters are in denial as to any of this…..they try make out as though they don’t identify as assisting people get a job/work!!??

      WTF?

      Well then…..get the HELL off of seek.com JOB website then d…heads!

  20. Job networks are useless they do not help you find work and they are always pushing you into commission base and weekend work of late cheap labour scams.

    Getting you to look for work in areas you can’t get to because of lack of public transport, no person vehicle.

    They are always making appointments on fridays because they know they can go home early and this make sit hard to get any thing organised if you need get boots, or clothing for job interview, work or even course.

    Job network are completely useless anyway i am doing exactly what they were hire to do and it really pissing me off they take the credit for it and the Liberal government is crowing how good the system is working it is a shamble.

    Secondly the work for the dole and green projects are a cheap labour job scam if the government has so many of these work for the dole and green project on their books why cant they pay proper weekly wages and hire the unemployed considering they are claim it is to help get people back in work repay back to the community.

    On top of this these so call non for profit companies mostly churches involved with them are getting the cheapest form of labor instead of hiring contractors or proper labor another form of job scam in itself while they collect tax payers money to buy properties and get cheap building materials to build their own homes.

    None of the work for the dole projects i have dun gave me any skills to get work the whole entire time under the Howard Liberal government and it did not boost my self esteem, help me get work i felt like i was just some cheap carpet for the government to use.

    And from what i am seeing now nothing has changed except the names of the companies that run these jobnetwork and work for the dole which is still connected to the rorting job agency and Work for the dole salvation army.

    Since i quit my taxi driver jobs and end back up on the unemployed list back in sept 2014 due to a nervous break down i seen no changes in any thing the government has claimed its still fix up resume, come in and do job club which goes over the same boring stuff i am already doing and proving proof i am doing.

    More people would get work if the government scrapped the job agencies and allow bosses to employ directly like it was under the Hawke government which you could walk out of one job almost straight into another with out the necessary burden of having a interfering third party wanting you on their books so they can get tax payers government funding which is what really costing Australian tax payers money.

    Job Agency’s need to go they do not offer any help in getting work and i am doing the work for them while they sit on their arse dictating where i should work.

    Liberal government welfare reforms are hodge wash.

  21. Hi all! Great website!

    I am currently with Ames.

    I have two letter from my doctor saying that I need to see a psychiatrist for 6 free sessions over 6 months. I email these two letters to one of the staff at Ames (This particular office has the highest staff turnover rate I have ever seen 10 staff left in the last 2 months). One month later I am put in work for the dole and told to tell my psychiatrist that they have to make me appointments around work for the dole.

    I am awfully tempted to tell them to shove work for the dole where the sun don’t flamin shine as I have been unable to work for 3 years because of unpleasant stuff that has happened to me for the last 3 years. I suffer from anxiety issues to the point where I need to be alone for the next 6 months to at least try to heal.

    Any suggestions if there are anybody better than Ames?

    Thanks all. Once again great site.

  22. At this point my job network provider (Job Prospects) is making me do 6 hours of job searching for a total of 12 hours as I am required to do it over 2 days. I am in my 2nd week and I am very close to my required job searches for the month. As soon as I reach it I am not doing anymore due to I don’t have to.
    This “activity” is one that I know very little about than what I have already said. My Job Plan mentions something about doing a job activity 12 hours per fortnight, but I am yet to be told what that means and if it has anything to do with this job searching I am doing. I have asked about it and have also reminded them that I can’t do 6 hours a day due to suffering from stress and how this activity effects it. Still no answers. I have also told the network’s counsellor about all this and she will be updated when I get no answers and when I do.
    If this goes for too much longer, I am going to try to leave and go somewhere else. I hear complaints about certain staff there and how unhelpful they are. I am adding myself to the list of complainers.

    1. That’s it. That job searching is your “activity”. Sit in a chair where someone is available to “help” you find work. But it shouldn’t be 12 hours a month. Ask if there is a course or something more useful you could be doing in that time, especially if you can do your searches from home.
      Jobs Statewide gives you an hour a week (which you can get out of as long as you show you can do 20 jobs a month on your own, then you only have to attend once a month, hand in your job applications, have a chat, then leave.)

  23. I cannot even begin to describe my hatred of Max Employment. Evil…. totally evil. the only person they are interested in helping is themselves, at your expense, even if it will cost you your life, like what these slimy sons of hell are doing to me. They dont seem to lose a wink of sleep that their scams and games are blockading my access to DSP, even though they know I have been eligible for it for two years now, and the only thing preventing access to this life saving assistance is the self serving bastardry of Max Employment. They know. But they dont care, since screwing me around results in a paycheck for them, but increased life threatening illness damage to me, because I cannot afford to take care of my illness on newstart. All it would take to save my life if for these bastards to just put in writing what their consultant told me, that they have zero help to offer somebody in my situation. They will not. They would rather that you DIE from your illness than admit that the utter shite they put you through is useless pointless insulting irritating subhuman crap that would never help anybody get a job, ever.

  24. I’m with (Un)Wise employment and my current consultant is a real piece of work I’m going to try and get a change of consultant today as I’ve got an appointment in the morning. I’m going to try and get back to seeing my old consultant as she actually cared for me and tried to get me into the field i’m comfortable in (IT) and not any job like the current one is trying to do just so she can earn her fat commission.

    I’m also going to request to only have monthly appointments and not annoying fortnightly (or sooner) ones that they have been giving me (thanks to this amazing website for that information)

    Wish me luck.

  25. Been with Job Prospects since deferred Masters due to coordinator passing away, Went overseas due to field work notified centrelink they said ok was texted for agency. When got back had meeting was made to sign for 20 jobs a week I work between 20-40 hours a week. Have cancelled meeting due to work and when reporting for payments automatically meeting requirements, and now 6th fortnight no pay, yet still sent letters keep ringing them they say still have to come but have not been doing that. Also a different person each time when I call.
    My last provider between my BA and Honors was fantastic and even kept in contact via email when back on Honors she wanted a copy of my Thesis.
    Wise employment so much better but they did not get contract in my local area.
    Job Prospects does not understand the rights of the job seeker.

  26. I think the main issue here is that there are simply not enough jobs.. The unemployment rate statistics are incorrect because they seem to think that someone who works only 3-4 hours a week is technically employed despite that these people are still requiring benefits to make ends meet. Whats worse is that the job providers themselves are not really helping us find work. Instead they seem to be a tool to help alleviate the pressure from the Centrelink offices. We are forced to attend the same time wasting appointments with our providers. The very same appointments and activities hosted by job providers that were audited and shutdown only a year ago. The group job search activities are of no use to me and probably not much help to many of the people who have to attend these meetings with said providers. Attending these appointments and being made to work for the dole has taken a huge toll on my self esteem. Some job providers are better than others but in the end none of them provide what we actually need. Promising job leads..

  27. Max employment just sucks real quick in getting me into a work for the dole scheme but not real quick finding me jobs and they wonder why people go off at them, Useless the lot of them

    1. They just spend the $ they Rort off of Centerlink and build new office outfits including glass reception screen and fancy door with keypad combo lock so they can lock their bone fat idle ignorant backsides away from our view out left on our own in reception area.

      If you see a product disclosure statement/delivery of services bit of photostat paper at start up of JSA…..you should be able to point out all the promises/services they list on that document….but they will look at it like it is like a blank peice of paper and it would take an EWP to even budge these defiant obnoxious JSA case workers asses into gear.

  28. IK just got back from meeting with my job coach who is a new coach. This is the 5th coach now I have had. Previously I had a coach who was really good helping me and discussing my situation each time I would go in to see him. Sadly he moved to QLD. Today at JOBACTIVE BLACKTOWN NSW I was treated like a criminal as if I had done something wrong. There was no assistance, zero compassion or even discussion I was treated as if I was not doing anything to get a job. The supervisor was called over by my job coach and then she was even ruder then the new job coach. I was in shock as to their treatment of me acting like I was a bludger. I have worked since I was 12 years old often working 7 days and some nights till I was in my late 30s when I had to take on my two children aged 2 and 4 at the time. Now I need to be on the pension to be there for my kids. I have been trying different things to make money so I can still look after the children. These job coaches are a disgrace and should not be in a job like this.

  29. MAX connect EMPLOYMENT are useless have provided me NO HELP with anything to get me a job they just sit on their ass on computer looking like their helping out but they do nothing I’m putting in a transfer to employment plus

    1. Trust me, it won’t help. Employment Plus, in Beenleigh specifically, give you activities to do but it doesn’t get you a job any quicker. If you get calls for an interviews, you only have yourself to thank, not them.

      1. Never EVER have I had a JSA even as far as having a single lead/contact to show for….even initiating one…..have I ever had any of them do neither.

        Like trying to get blood out of a stone.

        They have no local employers looking/sourcing for workers….etc and too much emphasis these days on giving jobs to people already working than to unemployed people.
        Recruiters are an EFFING discriminatory disgrace as they black list any applicant been out of work 3 months…..and all we have is ongoing harrassment having to look at these arrogant pig ignorant reluctant to do jack regarding facilitating us into employment cheap and nasty easy way out WFD JSA case worker pigs.

  30. I go to Salvation Army: Employment Plus
    I gotta say the whole thing is a joke and a waste of time. They don’t help in getting you a job and the activities they make you do hasn’t helped me whatsoever, it’s actually quite stupid. I managed to get interviews and that was by my own doing. I have nothing to thank them for at all. Forcing people to work for the dole is pathetic. I’m already going through financial struggles and on top of that I’m supposed to work for the dole (receiving benefits from Centrelink does not count as it is f*** all, it does not make up for the amount of time I spend doing this), yeah thanks. Waste my fuel and waste my time, make me miss out on all the job opportunities that are posted online because I’m “working” til 4:30pm, I could apply but hundreds of other people have already applied before me. They don’t understand that I’m not the only person applying for jobs out there. Working for the dole is the biggest time waster ever, it is only beneficial for those who have absolutely no work experience.

    1. As far as myself is concerned….I think I will just commit suicide before ending up on any WFD debilitating degrading non for profit depressing animal refuge/Salvation Army clothing store program.
      I will even tell/warn them this.

        1. People should just rally…start a protest placards and all about how so many providers are basically the same and failing people making their lives a misery on top of unemployment.

  31. I recently changed from parenting payment to newstart as my youngest son turned 8 and I was suddenly put into another stream. I am now required to attend a ‘job club’ 5 days a week for 3 hours a day doing exactly what I can do at home. It is a complete waste of time and I’m supposed to only have part time requirements as a principle carer parent. I seem to be the only principle carer parent in there who has to go every day so I’m pretty close to requesting a transfer. I really want to find work but this is not helping at all.

  32. Hello all
    i totally agree, with all the ppl on here, and there situation of there context, and iv been thru the same treatment, and iv complaint to every department there was, and even center link, to my conclusion, these job providers, have more power than centerlink, after all i went thru, i beleive these job service providers, are the way thay are, by design, i believe these job service providers where created, to remove the umemployed from centerlink, the umemployed to the service providers, the umemployed, are not to be trusted, not to be believed, and to hassel them to the point, where no reason of excusses mean anything, you have totally no rights, and because your unemployed you have no money other than the benifit your getting, so you have no chance employing a lawer to fight back, so thay just get away with it, and as ppl get cut then reinstatted and loose days pay hear and there, centerlink saves money, im a injuerd work related person, had operation when thru work cover now im on the dole, with workcover restrictions so i can stay healthy in life, to the job service provider it means nothing, of cause thay say thay understand, just to look good, i tried to apply for disability pension, but because the way the disability support requiments are set up now, as im not half dead its not avalible to me, the whole system is designed the way it is to get ppl on support off support at any means,

  33. I recently joined MAX employment (like a month and a half ago) and it is BY FAR THE WORST EXPERIENCE ever! They don’t alert you or they ONLY alert you if you have missed your appointment on MYGOV. They don’t have any alerts on your upcoming appointments, only the sheet of paper they give you at the start. It’s very unprofessional. I had to go to those 3 compulsory Job Advice meetings and I went to them and they were over within 20 minutes and then we were told to go on to the computers and job seek for the rest of time. The 1st time I ever went to MAX, they didn’t even teach me how to use the (outdated) computers and their resume system is the WORST, lucky I’m a quick learner for computers but I couldn’t help but feel sorry for those who don’t use computers often, trying to work out this horrible, ineffective system. I tried finding holes within their system so I could use my own resume by downloading it on the computer but I guess they did their work on how to prevent that. So I had to basically find all the jobs I wanted to apply for and THEN go home and apply to them, which I feel is a complete waste of time. Don’t even get me started on the speed of their internet and system, again a complete waste of time. I feel sorry for those who may not have computers at home because there is NO WAY that they can apply to jobs correctly and professionally using MAX’s system.

    The staff there are rude and disrespectful. I got a job interview for a bar and I went to it and then I was invited to do a 5 week CERT III in Hospitality. I told MAX that I was doing it. But then a few weeks later my payment was suspended saying that I took it into my own hands (as if I have no right to do so) to do this course without their permission. They told me I missed all my appointments (despite me telling them I CANNOT attend due to the 9-5 demand of the course). They still said it was all my fault and I DIDN’T get paid for that fortnightly pay. The MAX lady who told me this said I’ve done the wrong thing and that “you will most likely not get a job anyway with this certificate” um lady I need all the experience I can get, I can’t see this as a waste of time, I’m learning loads you idiot, at least I’m not sitting on my butt, flattering out my ass cheeks. SO yeah BASICALLY NEVER CHOSE MAX IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING! Also, would love it if someone could tell me on MYGOV how to change employment providers. Thanks.

  34. Call the 1800 number at the top of this page, lodge your complaint then seek a transfer. It’s easily done. The complaints are noted. This is what I did to move away from Max Employment, and their low level, ineffective, and occasionally dishonest staff.

    Be aware too that Max Employment named in a fraud investigation in 2015 under the previous JSA system – refer the 4 Corners report on the ABC site. I cannot understand how this company has been awarded a new service contract under JobActive. It’s clear from any interactions I’ve had with them that it’s all about the money. Their services, resources and programs are thoroughly inadequate and certainly not customer-centric. In my view they have completely misrepresented themselves to the DHS, aside from aptly demonstrating appalling business practices.

    1. Because the government are thick and ignorant as pig shit that’s why.
      They just love throwing money away.Same deal with the corrupt lying RTOs lying about how their BS run organisations are just diploma mills churning out going nowhere qualifications even lying about PP…Productivity placement crock saying there is a skills shortage in particular area and these courses are designed to address that….load of bollocks!
      Don’t ever do a course with ltt(lab tech training WA) cos their a total sham RTO and you will waste 10 months doing cert III/Diploma in lab technology F/T and no one will be interested.

    2. Is their actually any such thing as a “good provider” because so far I have had the unfortunate misery dealings with

      Mission plus(S.army)
      @work Australia
      Community first vic park(I saw the girl there actually throwing her highlighter pen at people sometimes when I was doing a job assist course there….disgusting behaviour…not to mention verbally insulting people comparing herself to us as a tax payer)

      Max employment

      Like seek.com website None have ever actually ever yielded me a job.Not even tried once.

  35. SARINA RUSSO is the worst. They are asking for my pay slips to make sure I am telling centrelink the right hours and money earnt. Not in helping me find permanent employment….. All they want is the government subsidy and not interested in helping anyone.

  36. I have/had? a transfer by agreement pending with ESG to transfer to another provider enacted on the 15th of December. I sat with my “job coach” (whoever i get shuffled around to on some kinda of rotation) today to query the outcome of the transfer, she appeared to be oblivious to it even existed, so she called the “manager”. I was then told that the other provider had it declined (which I knew was BS, when in fact they started the ball rolling after I spoke with their Manager in person and watched him sign the transfer from), but “wasn’t sure” and “manager” would call me…that didn’t happen. Why not just tell me you are completely ignoring my request? later today ESG have reported to centrelink i have missed an appointment today. I feel as if I am being punished.

    Reasons for leaving ESG St Marys:
    Numerous times (more than 5) they have set an appointment, made no attempt to notify me of the appointment (not snail mail, not email, not landline nor mobile), and then reported that I failed to attend…WTF?!
    In November they sent me to Providential Homes for a WFD project (kitchen refurbishment, which turned out to be a project that was no longer running), so i helped out around their warehouse, packing crates for food deliveries, loading/unloading trucks and pointless shuffling of stuff they hoard (because they didn’t have much else use for us?)…for three weeks my attendance was not being reported to whoever, and only discovering this was occurring with the notification of my payment being suspended. The report to Centrelink was erroneous (the days did not match the ones in my JSA), therefore it was dismissed (small win for me)…i never went back.

    going to look into 1.5.2 Changing Providers Due to Relationship Failure i guess, any advice?

    1. So I procrastinated on contacting the Department’s National Customer Service Line in order to change providers due to relationship failure, and now it will be longer necessary, as I was surprised to receive an appointment letter in the mail from the new provider.
      Good Riddance to ESG.

  37. My life has been compltely destroyed after workplace bullying in 2012. I worked for a very poorly managed, small business. They made me believe that they were going through temporarily difficulties. I worked very hard, received ongoing positive feedback that I was “the best admin person” the business ever had. After 4 months in the role, I received an unexptected payrise, which made me feel appreciated. I was the only Admin person in the office, the others were business owner, his sister as finance and hr manager, their longterm friend as operationsmanager. None of them had qualifications or experience to perform their roles (something I discovered much later). I worked a lot of unpaid overtime, was completely exploited, but as there was promise of support of further studies and improvement, I did my best. There was high staff turnover – during my time 7 people left and 7 people started (in a business with less than 15 employees and during a period of 1 yr and 9 mths. When I went on one months holidays, after much notice, when I had been there for 1 year and 3 mths, I assisted the business to find a suitable person to fill in while I was away. On my return from holidays, the workplace bullying started. They completely screwed with my head. It appeared as they were trying to make me resign, but at the same time they gave feedback that I was a very valued employee…. the bullying increased, I became more and more stressed and confused. It was clear that they wanted to employ the person who I had assisted with to fill in for me during my holidays. Unfortunately for me, my employer did not at all go about code of conduct, and completely failed duty of care. I was lied to, yelled at, sworn at, given a USB with a wormvirus and much, much more. Eventually I made a written grievance and harassment complaint, backed up with much real information, referring to dates and events. The complaint was not handled in accordance with code of conduct, according to workplace health and safety. Instead the bullying increased. I was so stressed that I had a twitch in my eyelid, thyroid issues, sleep problems, cried every day, isolated myself from social interaction. Eventually I made a written complaint to Workplace Health and Safety Queensland. The day after I had made the complaint, late in the afternoon, with five minutes notice, I was requested to attend a meeting. In this meeting, I was told for the first time that my job had been made redundant. I was told that I could apply for the new part-time postion. This was in fact my job cut down to part-time. However, there had been no consultation or forewarning, I was not offered the job, I was told I could apply for the newly created position. There was absolutely no reason to why my employer would handle the situation like this. Just before going on holidays, an email was sent to all staff, with special reference of appreciation of my highly valued input to a project to improve the situation in the business. I had handed in my written resignation, after 7 months with the business, due to how poorly managed it was. I was then asked to stay and I was asked to suggest how the situation could be improved, which I did. For anyone who looks at this in an equal and unbiased way, it is very clear that I was severely bullied. This is the reason to why I crashed with severe depression. I did everything I could to get help from the authorities that are available in those situations, but my former employer has connections in government. Now I am being made out to be a perpetrator, a person who has difficulties with authorities, there are attempts to declare me mentally disturbed. All my solid evidence has been completely ignored and numerous false reports written up about me. When I started in this job in 2011, I had lived in my home since 2004, paid off around $15000 on the loan, I had some savings and investments. I had solid workexperience from working full-time since 1993.
    Jobservice providers have definitely not worked in my best interest, they are contributing to making me more and more unemployable. They are not meeting their obligations in assisting me with suitable employment. To my experience, they are destroying people and are a complete waste of taxpayers money. Ofthen the staff in the jobservice providers have not suitable qualifications or experience, even hardly any experience at all. They are unable to relate to people who are unemployed for various reasons.
    Australia is a country with concerning amount of suicide and mental health issues. What I have learnt, is that mental health is used as a weapon to declare people incapable and disturbed, instead of dealing with issues appropriately, in a fair and transparent manner. It is so completely wrong.

    1. Yes Eva I hear you girlfriend. I have depression and anxiety (I am medicated) but I still have my not so good days and struggling to get a job doesn’t help. I am so sorry about what you’ve been through and I hope this year will be better for you and myself too.

  38. Does anyone know of a decent provider I could transfer to? I thought I had a good one, but my consultant has turned out to be a real Beeeeeeep!
    I spent my first day at “job seekers group” in a room in front of a computer. She didn’t tell me what to do so I sat there for 45 mins doing nothing while she conducted appointments. Perhaps it should have been obvious to me that I was supposed to use it but she didn’t tell me that. All I knew was to turn up. I didn’t know what we were going to do in this stupid group. I look for work every day at home on my laptop. Durr! When I told her I could do everything from home she said if I want her help I must attend. It’s BS. Then she tries to lay a guilt trip on my by saying I have to do more walks around the shopping centre applying for retail jobs and that that is the only way I will get anywhere because employers want to see you face to face. She won’t help me by calling the companies where I have applied for office jobs as she says they are looking for something specific and that Echo only do that for some jobs like trade, hospitality & others, not the ones I want. How is that going to help me? I have no idea in what way she plans on helping me. But I don’t like being made to feel like I am not making enough of an effort to find work. She gave me a hard time when I left at 2pm instead of 2:30pm, telling me that the group is run for an hour & a half not an hour. to top it off she knows I have health restrictions which limit me to the type of work I can do. I really didn’t like her attitude and want to change providers because she is not giving me the support I need given my situation. She is not very sympathetic.

  39. I’m a single parent, not by choice, of two wonderful boys. I ended up retiring at the beginning of last year due to injuries I received in a car accident. I had previously been working for the same company for almost 10yrs. I chose to study full-time, instead of looking at four walls, at Uni doing a Bachelor in Science. I have Cert 4 in Frontline Management and a Diploma in Business Management. This started so many problems with Centrelink as I am not, “One of the Norm” I was called as I am within my rights to do nothing. I then got sent to MADEC. OMG!! I have just emailed them again tonight. I have signed a Study Plan with Centrelink but they hassle me to go and sign a Job Plan with them. My certificate for my back etc was over riding the fact I was studying and this is the first instance I had issues with MADEC last year. It took months of being told it wasn’t them but Centrelink and visa versa. They know about my health issues. The receptionist is so rude and condescending I hate talking to her. I don’t know my rights. I am in the process of also applying for disability as I have now been classified as permanently disabled and stable by my doctor etc. I can get JET childcare assistance if I email JET every single week my timetable for Uni, what a joke, and I can’t get help with Uni books cause I’m not on Austudy. Was told to apply for it which I cannot due to my kids. I have a disability access plan so I can also watch lectures online so I don’t have to be in a car or walk far. MADEC office here is hopeless. Their Head Office at least tries to help but it’s not up too them. Sorry for the rant but I feel like banging my head on a brick wall. It feels like a fight at every turn. Can anyone point me in the right direction or have I not been informed correctly?? Please help.

  40. I’m so not happy with my current Employment Consultant. I want to change providers, but I do not want to face him with the form to transfer as I know he won’t sign it. He is useless, is never happy with the amount of jobs I apply for, the variety of jobs I apply for and has no information/ideas on how to get a job. I doubt he’s even putting me forward for their own jobs on their job sheets. Is it possible to change providers online? I read previous posts mentioning this, but I can’t find where to do it in my online mygov account.

  41. Max employment agency, what a joke!!! I took a photo of an empty office today with 6-8 people waiting! 40 minutes later I walked out, they didn’t even notice! I’ve gone in a few times and sat on the floor as there were no chairs! I’ve had over 5 different consults and most have left. They are nothing but ignorant box tickers!

  42. It’s not just Max employment that is behaving badly. I’ve just had global skills today try and convince to stay on welfare instead of withdrawing from it. I have a job now and I am quite happy with the hours I am working. Global skills have even harassed my employer to give me more hours ( in a physically demanding job ) when I don’t really need more hours than I’m already working. I have apologised to my employer for my job network providers bad behaviour. Just as well there was no hard feelings.

    They got quite annoyed at me when I told them the other day that I would be withdrawing from Centrelink very soon and not attending job search or appointments with them. To be honest, it sounded like a massive scam conversation. I couldn’t quite believe that they wanted me to stay on the welfare system. It’s in their best interest to get me off it.

  43. I’ve had the same problems with Jobs statewide.
    The appointment booking system: My first appointment was scheduled for Boxing Day. I was dubious, but I attended because I didn’t want to fail my obligations. I took a photo of the locked door and slid my resume underneath. I also attempted to call them several times so I had records of my attempts to make contact. But really?! Scheduling an appointment on a public holiday.
    The payslip meetings: I was marked as unattended because apparently I had not handed in my payslips. I had been told to email them so I wouldn’t have to show up in person. I did. They said my payslips were a week behind. I get paid fortnightly, and on the opposite week to government pay week. They wanted payslips that did not exist yet (eg. my slip that I would get on the 19th but they wanted it on the 12th). I told them this and started requesting confirmation of the emails. I told them in an email that I would not be getting casual work for December. They did not confirm receipt. I was marked as unattended in December. I sent them Novembers slips again and requested receipt of email confirmation. They did not confirm, but I was marked as attended. I sent the same email again two weeks later and requested receipt in the subject line (and also stated I had requested it twice already IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS). They finally replied. Didn’t hear anything about it being November’s payslips though, so they obviously didn’t bother reading it.
    The computers: I spent 1/2 hr just trying to change a couple of paragraphs on a word document and then print them. On one of 6 computers. At Salisbury (20 mins away) when my provider is supposed to be Elizabeth. Because over 6 months ago they had ‘flooding’ (on the second floor?) and due to ‘liability and insurance issues’ no one at the Elizabeth branch can use a PC unless the job club has room.
    “Help” with getting interviews: I found a couple of interviews on my own, but I have only been provided ONE interview by my case worker in a YEAR. So I have to apply for 20 jobs per month (240 per year, people!) and they have helped me with almost nothing. Less than 0.5% compared to my efforts.
    Keeping private information private: Putting that many resumes online has left me vulnerable to scammers and course recruiters (yes, I’ve had a few phone calls asking me to SPEND money or sign up for EXPENSIVE courses instead of offering a way to make money). I haven’t heard a word about online safety from my jobs provider, and you’d think they’d advise us on how to protect ourselves from being taken advantage of.

  44. WARNING!!!!
    Check your privacy settings on Seek, CareerOne, Indeed, JobActive etc. The default settings allow these companies to SELL YOUR DETAILS to third parties. I have had several calls from course providers who try to sign me up for EXPENSIVE business courses (I had to do my research to find out the cost) that have NOTHING to do with my desired field. I am hoping for an employer to call me, so I answer the phone and then have to deal with what are basically telemarketers. These sites are preying on vulnerable job seekers.
    READ THE FINE PRINT, and if you’re not sure, change your settings to private.

  45. Hello Everyone

    I have been with ESG for quite some time now. In that time I have done 3 separate certificates as part of the job activity plan, I have been changed to not 1 not 2 but 4 different job coaches this year alone in the last 2 months and I have been telling them that I suffer from stress induced anxiety. For that reason I am unable to work in a hospitality environment because I have worked in that industry for 8 years. Even after telling them this so many times since last year not even once any of them mentioned that I need to show evidence of this so I had no way of knowing until last Friday when one of the job coaches called to tell me that he is going to start setting up interviews for hospitality industries and now I having to chase up my GP and my previous psychologists to get a formal letter to say that I have been suffering from anxiety.

    I the hospitality industry I had been dragged by the collar by a chef, I was spat on by a customer, I had drinks thrown at me, I had food thrown at me because it wasn’t to their liking, I was harassed by co workers, and more than many occasions people left work early because they couldn’t handle the pressure and I was left to do all the work.

    The job coach on the phone kept saying that “I know your dream job is to work in retail or in an IT environment but you have to work somewhere in hospitality.” working for retail is no one’s “dream job” every single person who seeks help from ESG they know all too well that they are far from their dream job. They know they never had their dream job and maybe they never will, I live with that in every waking moment of my life I don’t need someone like them to be a constant reminder of it.

    Not only that, I thought it would be good for me to do an RSA course and while on the phone he/she sounded so condescending saying “Well if you cant work in an hospitality industry then getting you that course was a waste of our time.” I agree that I wasn’t thinking clearly when I asked if I could do an RSA course and I was also not even expecting them to pay for it but they did and I was surprised by that. I did the rsa course before and I needed to update it.

    After that phone call on Friday I haven’t been able to sleep properly for 3 nights in a row. I went to see my GP today to get a letter to say that I suffer from Anxiety so I could give it to ESG. But turns out that kind of letter can only be given to me by a Psychologist. So he gave me a medical certificate instead. I am afraid that on Monday (tomorrow) when I provide them this they wont accept it. Furthermore, last time when I had my mental health plan done I was refereed to headspace 2 or 3 months before my 26th birthday and the thing about headspace is that they don’t see anyone above the age of 25. So, I have been looking for a Psychologist that does bulk billing since then. When I went to my GP today he told me my mental health plan needs to be updated and to set up another appointment for that matter. After that they will find me a Psychologist who will be able to give me a letter to show ESG and CENTERLINK.

    Right now, all I can say is that I am sick and tired of being thrown around like this. All I want right now is a job that I know I am capable of doing. I have loved computers since I was a kid, I never owned a single gaming console in my whole life but I have built computers for myself and for others. I built my first computer when I was 15. The only reason I never had the chance to pursue that dream is because I came from a poor family and my parents needed money. So I spent the majority of that 8 years working in the hospitality industry to cater to my family’s needs. But it’s time for a change and I need that one chance to show people that I am a hardworking dedicated and enthusiastic person given the right opportunity. They said they the “An interview in the hospitality will be help me” …How exactly? One of the most common interview question is “What drives you to work in this industry?” … What am I suppose to tell them? Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING, I have lost all my passion for that Industry.

    I apologies for venting. But I feel like I can’t express this to anyone because No one gets it. They think mental illness is a joke. That I am making excuses, I am 26 years old, and I used to LOVE driving when I first got Ls it was until I got into a car crash with my cousin when I became scared of driving but now with the help of my girlfriend who has been so supportive of me throughout all these years I finally got my Ls again hopefully I will be on my Ps in a matter of 2 months. But that being said, I can not sleep the night before my driving lesson. I have constant panic attacks and the same thing happens before every single ESG appointments. Being unemployed not only affects you financially but mentally and physically. I just wish they would understand it.

  46. I just changed from Max Employment. I was cut off for not being able to attend appointments due to work. I had to ring up the Department of Employment to confirm that paid employment was a reasonable excuse. They also got nasty when I refused to provide payslips for a job I found myself (they kept ringing up making appointments the same day saying I will be breached if I did not provide them)

    The lady from the Department was nice enough to do a transfer right away as the consultant at Max was getting very angry and ringing up every few hours demanding I come in and was making daily appointments until I did. She used the “Better Servicing” for which a transfer can be done immediately for cases where a agency performance is so bad there is no other option like this case. This was useful as the consultant’s behavior escalated to a point of extreme harassment and all the appointments made were removed and they no longer had access to my file.

    The new agency is a lot better than Max as they are not for profit and actually nice to people.

  47. I cancelled my appointment with one of those agencies after finding a full-time job. They’ve been harassing me for the past month to provide them with my payslips, ABN number, business name, address, team leader name, their phone number, my position title, type of work, hours etc. I am constantly getting SMS messages and phone calls. I reported everything to Centrelink, but my account is now blocked. The only thing I want is for them to get off my back. How do I report this abuse?

    1. They’re only doing that because they want to make out they got you the job,They want their little bonus,They are sales reps marketers they claim they non for profit organizations but really all we are to them is numbers and quotas ,To hell with giving them your pay slips what’s that to them,Your payslips are for your eyes only and the tax man,Keep ignoring them,Only report your earnings to centrelink not to them

  48. I’m so fed up with job providers, I’ve changed 3 times and I’m still getting the same treatment.

    I have severe chronic pain and c-ptsd, I get highly anxious around people so I can’t work in customer service, and because of the pain I can only do limited physical work.
    Do you think they care though? Not in the slightest. They keep pushing me in the first job they can get me in to regardless of if it’s too much for me, and when I tell them I can’t do it, they begin threatening me; saying they will take 10% off my income for not co-operating, or that I’ll lose my DSP completely for failing to obtain work.
    So usually I end being forced in to a job I can’t do, and what do you know, I end up falling behind within a few weeks after starting. Then either my boss/managers start getting angry at me for not keeping up, or I end up in hospital from poor mental and physical health.

    The thing is too is that I want to work, I do. But they refuse to take the time to find me a job I’m capable of. If I could find something that suites me I’d be happy to stay in the job for the long haul, I would be so much better then jumping from job to job because I can’t cope.

    This year I asked if I could start a course so I could at least have some qualifications on my side and get in to a line of work I know I’m capable of. But they refused to sign me up insisting that “a small job would be better.”
    Now once again, I’m being pushed in to a job I cannot do, my mental health is as low as ever, and I just don’t know how I’m going to cope. I wish i could stand up to them and say what they are doing isn’t okay, but then they threaten to take my DSP off me and I am not in a position that I can live without it. Without the DSP, I won’t be able to pay rent. Ans since I have no one else I can live with if I lose my income, I’d end up homeless.
    So they might as well be saying “do this job you’re not capable of, or go homeless.” It’s driving me over the edge. I don’t know how much longer I can handle this. I just feel like I’m being punished for being sick, and that they see me as less then dirt.

    1. You are not alone and as usual gone to the deaf ears.

      My wife stressed out, because she has been harassed and intimidated in front of other Agency members. She has B.A. In computer science and can’t get a job. Currently she is working as a domestic cleaner, reporting her income but still being told that she is frauding the system because she is not submitting 20 jobs per month. Her native language is Thai can speak english no problem and her BA Computer Science has been recognised in Australia,

      Agencies need to be more educated and be more caring. Yes they do treat their clients as dirt. Shame on us as a country that we have system like this to push people over the edge. I work in my ownbusiness and don’t know how to handle this.

      1. That’s terrible, they should not be bullying her like that.

        It really is bad when people have skills for a certain job but get pushed in to something like retail or cleaning because it’s quick to get in to and makes the job agency money for employing the person. They care so little about their clients, people are just profits to them, not people. No compassion at all.

        1. It is a way for the government to pretend that there are plenty of jobs. Seems you need to be a migrant to get a leg up into work if your low skilled or inexperienced. The real disgrace is offering hopeful people hope by cruelly putting then into courses that they don’t have the background knowledge that enables them to be able to successfully complete. The disgusting part is then the unemployed person usually young is left with $1,000’s of debt. The shoddy colleges that have been exposed as such may close but the debt still stands – lives ruined before they can start. It is FRAUD. Senator Brandis apparently ok’d the shoddy colleges but has now slipped away from it like a slimey eel…. WHY doesn’t the government step in and help the people out of the stupid mess enabled by these rude unprofessional providers. Is it a ploy to have people off welfare support so they are homeless. Is it to be the elite, the rich/wealthy, the academic, the lucky, the employed migrants, and the rest of the country being the peasants aka the great invisible. WE DO HAVE RIGHTS …. Vote for real change before we are outnumbered!

      2. Hi call dept of employment there is a guideline for job providers that says if you work depending on hours you may only have to look for 10 jobs a month or maybe even 5 depending on how many hours your wife has worked. Make sure you ask them to guide you where the guideline is or get them to email or post it out to you .

      3. I had THE EXACT Thing happen at my Job Provider….TODAY!
        Despite me having P.T.S.D. &
        Chronic Depression ( diagnosed)
        With other associated illnesses…including
        Sleep problems ..insomnia etc.
        I ATTEND Every Appointment…
        OR I give them a Courtesy Call if I’m late or can not attend
        I had allowed Myself 10 Minutes
        to drive 3 MINUTES to My
        Job Provider Appt ….BUT I had Forgotten about the major Local Roadworks….Made EVEN WORSE by a small car accident 2 cars up ahead..on an Already .Closed Lane…So I arrived 8 minutes late for my appointment… and a further 2 minutes waiting to be booked in. I apologised to the Receptionist (who was on headphone answering Phone. … she went to tell my consultant
        As The Door opened My Consultant had a look of death on her face… and I clearly HEARD HER SAY…
        Very Nastily…”SHE Can Wait”… and took in the Next appointment
        I thought That was fair as Dr’s do the same thing…
        NOT..HOWEVER …To MAKE ME WAIT . TIL The VERY LAST…
        As she opened the door to me she had a nasty Smirk …and Loudly Said with Obviious Enjoyment
        Sorry …BUT
        “IF YOU ARE LATE…. YOU WILL WAIT..!!
        W.T.F…. I Could Understand Her having That Attitude with repeat offenders…who don’t turn up etc
        But She Wouldn’t Even Allow me to Explain …. She simply just Spoke Over Me…..and said “You could have rang ..
        I said I Couldn’t Ring as no credit …texts only….she then Snapped YOU SHOULD HAVE REVERSED the Charges?!
        Reminds meof an old joke..
        I Felt like saying… “Oh Sorry Did I Interrupt You ..WHILE YOU WAS INTERUPTING…
        She greatly enjoyed pointing out that as my Tafe Certificates were back in 2005
        I was Now ..Basically Skill less.
        As WHATEVER I DID Learn Then ..
        was NOW Irrelevant outdated and Useless
        I Was and Still AM LIVID about How Badly She Treated me …
        If I Wasn’t DEPRESSED ENOUGH BEFORE….. I SURE WAS AFTERWARDS!
        She SHOULDN’T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO WORK with The Public…. Obviously
        No People Skills or Empathy whatsoever

        or running late.. .
        I wasnt Too concerned as
        After 7 YEARS Of Attending all appointmentshought I had a good record after
        nearly 7 YEARS with provider
        of Not Missing an Appt …attending EVERY Doctor ‘s Specialists…..
        Or a .

        My Caseworker

        1. THey did it delibaretely. If you go trough policies and procedures of Dept Of Employment, they want to limit your time with them and goverment. Though you after all this time fully qualify for DSP and be fully retired, they do not want to do that because there are thousands of people like us and they do not want to pay full pension. It is called character assassination, means they fabricate you delibarately into criminal and doll bladger. Funny thing, by the time you find out what malicious person wrote in your record it is too late.
          Like having a car accident in the roundabout, it is not you fault, you have to call police, you have to call insurance, you have to go to the court and then you have to deal with a result. You are criminal anyway. I know how you feel. Happens to me all the time.

        2. how awful wat a way to treat someone she shouldnt b with the public are u ok if u need to talk wat scum not even hear u out

          1. Hahahah wow oh wow.
            Whingers, what about your commitments.

            I am looking for work now
            Personally. I won’t take a pension from DVA, they can pay my medical but not me, you work for your money,. It’s an old fashion notion of wanting to show for something

            Will announce like the majority do with ALL about me first!!
            ME
            -I have crazy PTSD
            (6 roatations to the Middle East,outside the wire three others globally)
            -CRPS (complex pain issue that cannot be explained by scientists & Drs etc)
            -now I am Bi-Polar and Borderline Personality Disorder.
            – I was shot seven times. Had a four month coma, and 18 months learning to bath, shower feed myself and walk again. Had no gross motor memory. The hardest I had to LEARN to TALK again.
            -some weeks the pain cripples and I’m on a walking stick other weeks I walk ok and nearly jog.
            —-obviously hyper insomnia, blah blah yeta yeta

            ***i sometimes get a Med cert for the three months and use it for two. Occasionally don’t need one at all.***

            I don’t want the Disabled Allowance or a DVA Type.

            Life was not ment to be easy it can be enjoyed though and it can be glorious when you rise above your station in life.

            Tax payers pay tax, that pays for our allowances. We all have specific issues making our lives harder to be employed or find employment .However we have COMMITMENTS to the system that pays you all.

            Get motivated , stop whinging.

            I cannot medically drive a car ever ever again. I cannot do a lot of things ever ever again, but I still get out of bed and give it a shot.

            Even if you only get as far as a shower, a shave and a pop your head in at the employment office. YOU HAVE ACHIEVED SOMETHING!

            You will learn to care for them and they will learn to respect you , how you all seem to demand. Then your at least upon the road to a routine and getting mutual respect.

            If your all so sick medically why does a doctor not provide Medical Certification of this?

            Now I do hear you , what your saying but it takes time to make changes. The system is not perfect it cannot be amended and fixed unless you get out of bed and go there to help.

            One appointment to figure out what’s going on, even if you have to wait all day, your getting money for nothing. What do you care!!

        3. Her name doesn’t by any chance begin with the letter A? Her mannerisms you’ve described sounds simular to one of the employment consultants I have to deal with! She’s also very distrusting and assumes the worst of you and speaks and treats you like an unworthy person who cannot be trusted and is up to know good, even if you do all the right things, work hard, try your best and actually have a job, but unfortunately the hours can fluctuate. It feels like this consultan I currently have to deal with is trying and waiting to find any opportunity to punish and penalise me and at the same time it feels like the job active provider don’t really want me to be employed and the fact I’m casually employed seems to be a inconvenience to them. Very stressful and depressing when having to interact with this job active provider, particularly this lady consultant.

    2. I’m in very much the same boat, except I was rejected for DSP and haven’t felt well enough to put myself through that process again since, so I’m in a weird limbo where I have a disability support worker and pension card, but am still expected to find a job of 15 hours a week minimum. I have Fibromyalgia, BPD, and a whole host of other conditions that I consider secondary but are debilitating in their own ways. My “support” worker said that because I don’t have something visible like mental retardation that I basically will never get DSP or any help from anybody. That set the tone for our relationship because she’s stuck to that attitude even when I’ve argued with her and thought I’d finally made her listen to my needs, but no, she continues not to even perform the basic functions of her job and to just increase my stress levels by harassing me even though I’m already doing what I have to be plus more. But apparently trying to manage with pain management, DBT etc isn’t good enough because it takes time and isn’t a magical pharmaceutical cure (I’m already medicated, as well). After her latest threats because of their constant changing of appointments and unprofessionalism making it impossible to keep up with, I really feel hopeless again and it’s enough of a problem to keep your head above water with those thoughts and feelings with the conditions I have, but when the people who’re meant to be helping you are creating those anxieties it’s very easy to fall back into thinking “WTF is the point in living this horrible shit of an excuse for life where I’ll never get ahead and always suffer and struggle just to be”.

      1. You could get the DSP for fibromyalgia, because that’s what I have too and why I get the DSP. You will need a good letter from a specialist and doctor though. As much proof as you can get.
        I often say “chronic pain” because when people hear fibromyalgia, they never take it seriously, since there are many people with the illness that cope just fine. It affects everyone differently though. Some can function normally, some get so sick they need a wheelchair to get around. I wish people were more understanding of it, but like you mentioned, because you can’t see pain, it’s often ignored and invalidated. It’s an awful illness to have.

        I’m sorry your support worker is such an ass. It people like her that make life so much harder. Being sick is already tough, being harassed and bullied for it, is so much worse. My job provider is awful to me, always acting like she knows my illness better then I do, and telling me to push myself past my limits. I’ve been in tears so many times because she’s pushed me in to things that are too painful for me to do. It just isn’t right.

        Hang in there though, I know it’s crazy difficult to cope. I do hope one day our government changes things for the better so people who are ill aren’t left in these awful situations. It makes it so hard to survive. Constantly feeling like your drowning while everyone tells you to “try harder” as if you aren’t already doing the best you can do.

        1. I don’t know when you got your DSP but basically now you have to be either dying with a terminal illness or be so physically incapacitated as to be a vegetable. No one gets DSP anymore. I too have chronic pain, osteoarthritis in feet, hands, spine, knees and hip. I am nearly 59. I am awaiting an operation on my feet to fuse the bones together and have several small fractures. Despite my doctor giving me a certificate that says I can’t walk I was rated at cspable of 8 hours. They just dismiss what your doctor says. I tried to get a DSP and scored no points (you have to get 20) because the specialist said that hydrotherapy may give me some temporary pain relief and I hadn’t done it because there is nowhere near me that offers it.

          1. I know just how you are feeling Sharon, I have osteoarthritis is neck, shoulders, spine, hips , knees and ankles, I am also profoundly deaf.. I am being forced to do 15 hours a week in an op shop, which requires bending, lifting, and standing in one spot for hours at a time.. My body cannot take much more of this pain, and it is extremely difficult to work when you cannot hear anything.. I also suffer from severe depression and anxiety. Have gone to see a doctor that I was told to go and see.. he put the exact same thing on my medical certificate as my own doctor did.. but these people sit in an office, with no medical training and think they know better than a doctor. I did not score enough points either. They have no idea how deafness affects a person.. or how much pain affects us either.. I also have balance issues because of the issues with my ears, and frequently fall over which makes the pain much worse from the osteoarthritis.. They changed me to a disability employment provider , as they apparently have more resources to help me.. I had one appointment and was told I would never get a paid job. so therefore we have organised this volunteer work for you.. that way you don’t have to see us for another year.. where is the support ? I feel abandoned.. and like i have been thrown in the too hard basket. Ahhh well only five more years until I can retire. if I survive that long.

        2. I have cerebral palsy & I’ve been with 3 job providers so far, the 3rd being a disability employment provider. I’m now 24 years old & have never had a job, simply because I do not have enough exprience or skillset & having a disability in my opinion only makes things worse. I’ve always had severe pains with my right ankle & lower back to the point i’m depressed to even apply for jobs cause I would be kicked out quicker than I started if these pains were to occur while I was working. They then suggested that I do a Cert 3 to help increase my chances of getting a job. After completing the course, I was told that I would get my Certificate a month later. So I reminded my consultant that I had changed my address-this was 5 months ago. I just got fed up of waiting & gave the people that were responsible for my course a call. Turns out, they STILL had my OLD address on file. After I told my employment provider so many times that I have my changed my address! My Mum suggested that I should go on the DSP instead cause she thinks that as long as I don’t have enough skills & as long as the people who are supposed to be helping me look for work are keeping me unemployed, I won’t be able to get a job anytime soon. But the job provider told me that it would take a year or so to process my DSP applications plus I most likely won’t get it cause it seems that I am “mentally sound” & capable of looking for work. I’m sick of this.

      2. Grow some gumption. We all have issues. I look like I have been attacked with a rifle that shot acid not bullets but I march on.

        All of you have no real need to feel depressed, none at all.

        1. “All of you have no real need to feel depressed” You realise depression is an actual medical issue right? That’s like saying a diabetic has no real reason to suffer from a diabetic attack. You’re a little bit dense.

        2. Sounds to me more like you have been taking acid rather than being shot by it. My guess is that you are probably a snotty nosed pimple faced teenage liberal stooge. I guess teenage because your comments are so juvenile. Your story about getting shot etc is also an implausible fantasy, I have worked overseas in the security industry and can see plenty of holes in your commentary. Grow up, real men, real warriors have compassion as well as strength.

    3. They don’t want to help people they just keeping their own funding criteria boxes ticked I’m sure of it.Some actually think they can treat people like crap and will insult you put you down and even raise their voice at you and talk over you , until you retaliate ,to then mock you to coworkers like Sarah at Wise Parra disgusting ….They forget they are a service FOR unemployed not the unemployed a service for them ……

    4. Tell me about it. And when you look into these feeble characters, goverment place them in a position of power and they can do whatever they want to do for their American bosses ( all providers are American companies, hahaha). And all you want to do to become useful again and belong, and be able to earn money and buy presents to your grandkids for Xmas.
      I know where you are bro.

    5. You just have to play there game , it’s free money for doing nothing. They don’t want you getting a job , but must make it look like they are trying to make you get a job
      1 they won’t even look at your resume until
      You have been unemployed for at least a year
      2 if you ask about training they play dumb for at least a year then tell you training can be provided only threw there company trainer, (cert 3 training is gov funded training for anyone who wants to do at many training organisations)
      3 they threaten you with work for the dole after a year , saying you have to do training. They provide or do a work for the dole activities . Work for the dole activities are a joke , turn up, smoke cigarettes , drink coffee , then go home .

      1. Ok you need to learn to spell before someone will read your resume ‘threw or through?’ ‘There or their?’

        Threatening with work for the dole? Got to do something to up skill even if you doubt your upskilling and after a certain time you have to do some activity for 6 months of every 12.

        Nothing is for free don’t you guys get it.

    6. Mate, I feel your pain literally! I am in a very simular situation exept when the legislation changed couple years ago, I got kicked off dsp and told i can do 35 hours a week work and must provide evidence that im looking for that. I also have a esp that is actively trying to make me kill myself im sure of it. Keep ya head up bud and dont let these bastards get the better of you… get yourself a good doc that actually wants to help ya..lol i know i know, thats almost impossible these days too true… good luck mate stay strong????????

      1. Im sure you have a right to look for less work – read up on here and enquire at other places. Dont take the employment agencies word for it – look around and see if you can get a better deal Good luck!

      2. If there is something truly medically wrong with you the doctor will write a medical certification for three month blocks that’s four times a year you need to see a doctor ‘if it’s so bad’ lol.

        You all make me laugh with how petty your situations are. Nothing is for free

        1. Centrelink decide to stop accepting DR certs without regard for the facts to validate the deliberate shonky assessments of long sufferingpeople on DES ESS. Review officers are selected from aged care to examine NEWSTART cases so that they have no knowledge of the rules in question …. transferred back to unanswered helplines…. LNPSHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    7. Fully understand what you are being put through, i have serious hearing loss and no effort is made to find a job that i suited, the staff know nothing about disability, and only work to try and get kick backs from govt, its a dodgy system, and hopefully it will go the same way as ndis soon

    8. Sorry to see how much you are
      being repeatedly ignored &
      emotionally abused.I to got the same treatment by a person I really thought cared who worked for
      Atwork Australia in
      Rockingham,WA.Be sure to call them out so others no where not to go.Good luck in your job search.

      1. I was also with Atwork in SA Adelaide and this worker used to just passively aggressively abuse me by making nasty remarks. When she flat out said I should be grateful to get the DSP because of my mental illness I reported her to the department of employment services. It seems to be a place where they hire passive aggressive old cows who get off on insulting their supposed clients.

        Atwork is terrible and I encourage everyone who has experienced bad treatment to report them.

        1. You should feel lucky. Many people who truly need it got booted. Also if your that badly in need of it you will qualify. I cannot believe the sheer volume of everyone whinging for fre money. Then for the menial tasks you need to do to keep it… what else do you do with your time?

          Look after family. Your choice to have kids.

          Work part time; great that’s a survival job till you can get FT and good stuff too.

          What else does the average unemployed persons day consist off that as a full one worker before my above injury I still managaded to get three degrees working full time as well, often Overseas on deployment.

          This whole poor me and no motivation is sickening.

          1. LNPTROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    9. This is so common bullshit I agree no compassion or understanding from job agency’s I have been living with similar circumstances people need to recognis that we not all doll bluggers some of us have have physical an mental health reasons that need to be addressed first I find it hard too be social an don’t know how or where to get the help been that way there’s need for change this shit destroys peoples lives,familys,relationship etc how is this OK

    10. This sounds awful and relentless.
      Have you considered taking someone with you to your next appointment? As in, take someone you trust to be there as a support person/witness? Preferably someone who would be willing to put in writing the appalling treatment you are receiving. Too often we’re left to deal with this ourselves and JSPs get away with ridiculous behaviour.

      Additionally – you can enroll yourself into a TAFE course and receive Social Security (cos that’s what it is!), whilst you are studying. You don’t
      need to ask your JSP to do it for you, or for them to approve it. So long as the course is at least a year long. For example, a TAFE Cert IV or above. I’m sure there are other educational services/providers that meet Centrelink’s criteria but I don’t know who they are. TAFE is a sure bet. There are plenty of courses, and as much as some people undermine TAFE, it does provide good hands-on/work-ready education, and a break from the constant pressure we are put under.

      1. Your all getting free money . What is wrong with asking or being asked to do these things to receive it or make an effort so you can be job ready.
        Ie; committed reliable etc

        1. People are talking about being abused by JSP staff. I think it goes without saying that people on welfare are still people and deserve to be treated as such.

          But maybe you disagree. Fair enough.

    11. I am so so sad to hear you are having a hard time.
      Please talk with an ombudsman or contact the miniter – ake a fuss, shout, scream and tell them you need work but a job that is suited to you. You have the right to refuse a placement!

      I loved being told “oh you don’t need a job” when I told an employment consultant “I’m about to become homeless because you kicked me off Newstart for no reason.” When I complained, she laughed and said “Well, that’s life, you don’t need a job anyway. You have a child – that’s your job. You have a bad mental health record – with you being in Graylands hospital a few years ago, so you wont get a job anyway.” Ouch. Thanks.
      We do need work! We don’t need to be treated as if no one cares! We do need understanding and help or some guidance along the way – young people and those who are vulnerable, different or have a difficulty such as a “dis”ability. (Ppl deemed disabled still are capable of so so very much!) Employment agencies and some other people just don’t see it, dont have the time to understand that.

      I wish you the very best — dont let the bastards get to you! .

      1. sorry i have a new keyboard; i meant to write “Minister” and “Make a fuss”
        You also do need to put in the hard yards – so you look like you’re following all the rules too. One mistake and they’ll have you as the “hard/bad/difficult one” or the one that is ok to lose files or get kicked off Newstart etc. and won’t help you. The system itself is so so poorly designed its sickening, agonising and frustrating,
        I have seen so man people with disabilities being treated so poorly – the ones who are coping with the hardest things in life before they even go through the doors. These are people society, government, “Services (haha)” and business MUST be helping!
        I don’t get it that they’re not being helped at all!

    12. You are NOT alone! I have dealt with four Job active agencies talking down to me and threatening me, the ‘Mutual Obligation’ seems a little LESS mutual than I thought because it seems if they do something it’s a sorry and sweep away but if we do coming our payments are straight cut. I have anger anxiety and I can go from zero to a hundred for no reason and there’s no reason why. I have qualifications I want to move to sydney but they ignore me everytime and talk to me as if i’m lazy, I want to work i’m even trying to kick start and open my own business.

      I am not at the end of my rope and not going deal with this bullcrap anymore, the Mutual obligation is a CONTRACT now under the law a contract must be written in a way that benefits the party that agrees to sign it and it protects those that made it, it ALSO states that the party signing has to be Freely WILLING to sign it, if the party is threatened or in any way forced to sign a contract then that contract is NULL and VOID. But they’re the government they can get away with it. No I say no they cannot I deserve to be treated like a human being and not less, I want people to come with me or stand with me and actively fight this.

    13. Job Agency employees are not mental or medical health professionals or social workers. They are not educated in the effects of anxiety or how it will impact your performance in the workforce, They not understand how your well being can be effected by their demands. There needs to be a greater understanding and education in their industry before they are fit to give advise rather than continually setting people up fopr failure, causing stress anxiety and other health issues. Their only consideration is to meet their KPIs. To begin with the so called not for profit organisations, under quote to get the tender and do not have a realistic plan in place for those areas that fall in their region, of low employment and industry or facilities. They insist they are no longer required to provide any form of financial support in order to better assist you in finding employement. For example, transportation to get from interviews, clothing and protection wear for jobs and interviews. The they expect you to list a ridiculous amount of jobs you have applied for in a month. Seriously how can you apply for jobs that dont exsist or jobs you are not qualified to do. The agencies, should be creating empoyment, for you to apply for not the other way around. I wonder if a cleaner can apply to the health department to be an A&E nurse, would that count if it were the only job available in the area to apply for?

  49. Com,on You ppl, wake up, im an injured person to, and ive been through all the treatment yous are complaining about, and i agree, there so rude and disrespectfull, but i got to say, wake up, the way the job service providers are, is because thay are designed to be exactly the way thay are, the way thay are, is not personal, thay are trained to be exactly the way thay are, and its not realy the ppl that work at the job providers, its the policies they must follow, you see the longer your unemployed, the stronger the polices is implomented, its not the job services providers, meaning the person your dealing withs fault, its the policies, thay must follow, and if thay dont follow the policies, thayll be unemployed to, so there is the motivetion of why there the way thay are, the ONLY answer to this problem, is the next ELECTION, and VOTE that LIBERAL PART OUT, and thay will be gone at he next election i believe till then, its how it is, and nothing you can do, But YOU can do something on election day, DO IT, thats the time, YOU HAVE POWER, just dont be lazy, thats what thay relye on,

    1. Although you are struggling to construct a legible paragraph, I think I understand what you are trying to say…. JSP follow policies and procedures – Yes.
      In my opinion, they are a total waste of tax payer funds. I don’t know anyone that has found them useful or got work through them.
      So frustrating!!! Now they expect me to Work for the Dole.. Is this a plan the govt. has put in place so that skilled workers are forced to work for nothing (the dole)? This is going to cost me money that I don’t have, just to get to work AND will most likely interfere with me finding a real job.

        1. My certicate ran out from last from so downloaded it the before from my phycycistist that was not good enough but because I am sucidl I get an exempt for a howhole two weeks then we start again if haven got prove I am stuffedvrember two weeks generous I have to get my evidence or else I can’t cope any more help

    2. Don’t give me that shit I record them on my I phone . I’ve got a collection of the cowards that get you by your self to try to bully and manipulate you if you respond unfavourably they cancell your payment. Wait till they hear themselves on the recording and their weak spineless personalities show through. Human rights , anit-discrimination will listen. Take a friend with you record it be polite and don’t back down. The Dept. of education, employment and training will listen.

    3. Doesn’t matter which party is in power. They both see the unemployed as criminals. If they really want to save money then instead of taking it off welfare recipients, they need to get rid of these useless agencies. They have never found me a job. All the casual jobs I’ve had for the last 10 years off and on I found. Then they had the hide to claim money from te government for finding me a job. It’s just a money making scheme.

    4. I disagree that it is just the policies they must work with that make the way unemployed people with disabilities and chronic illnesses are treated. Organisations should be training their workers in person-centred approaches to care. They are employing people without experience in working alongside people with disabilities and this is reflected in the behaviour of those employees. I have had four different workers over the past 4 years and not one of them has taken the time to understand my health issues. One tried to send me off to work in the mines doing 12 hour shifts, 9 days on, 4 days off. I’ve been assessed as being able to work 15 hours per week. The current one said she would revamp my resume and when I got it back it had only 2 jobs left in it, and she’d removed my qualifications, apart from a couple of certificate courses.
      It takes me longer to walk from the carpark to their office than the time they spend with me when I get there. The current ones have not referred me to a single job, yet I have to report my income to them so they get paid once I start work later this month. I asked if it was possible to get some help to pay for physiotherapy and acupuncture as the orthopedic surgeon I saw recommended that as a way of managing my pain. The worker didn’t know and a week later I have heard nothing back from her, despite her saying she would find out.

      I disagree with your assertion that we have power. We can request a change of provider and we can give them negative feedback when the survey from Centrelink comes, but apart from that we have no power.
      Yes, we can vote for a change of government, but perhaps many of us who are impacted by these appalling policies already vote for Labor.

      Policies do not dictate that a worker be rude and lacking in compassion, EVER.

      1. Its ok for the agencies and centerlink to say you are able to work for 15 hours, but how productive will you be, will you require extended time off work to address health conditions, will it cause you further harm by trying to meet expectation? Yes you ,might be able to do as they say but how long can you sustain it. Are the places of work funded to employee you, and will they continue to be able or willing to meet your special needs when the funding depletes? Would an employer employ you with your health problems over someone equally as qualified that has no issues? I thiink not, its all bogus! There is no human element involved a dangerous game the powers that be are playing with human lives,
        adding burden the the health services.

    1. 1800 805 260

      but they all work under the same contract dished out by the government, so if you think its going to be any different.. your kidding your self.

  50. I am sick of job providers just because I put my dog which is a legal obligation to look after comes first instead of a job now that’s heartless and in the same week he died I feel so sick being around these people that don’t understand that people’s priorities are different and I’m old school family comes first and a pet is part of that family. It was hard to sit there and not argue and “play the stupid game” just to get paid and what is worse they want me to work full-time as well as study the government should start to back off.

      1. FREE MONEY, some people have worked for 40 years & paid taxes so that other people could get the free money, the politicians have had more than their fair share of free money. People age & get sick, the government are trying to starve retirees out of existence, if you are over 55 & have heath issues you shouldn’t be treated like a second class citizen. There are so many young able bodied people in their late 20’s early 30’s that want work, over qualified & up to their eyes in debt, give them the jobs, get them off the dole & give some of the older workers a fairer deal.

  51. These Clowns are Bullshit, my current provider is trying to send me to a job thats 2.5 hours aways from me. when i said i would be unable to maintain that length of travel she got aggressive with me and threatened to report me cutting off my payment.

    what a bunch of clowns,

    the whole system is screwed, just trying to stay afloat is the most anyone can do

  52. so i haven’t heard from my job provider in 3 months, that’s since i joined up with them. they have not contacted me at any time at all and i could have done away with them because i missed a report and centrelink took me off their system, but me being the honest person i booked another date to interview.

  53. @ “Use Your Brain”
    I did vote to get rid of Liberal. Unfortunately, as always, minorities lost and they got in anyway. So what else can we do? The whole system is a mess.
    The government don’t care about us. To them all we are is a scapegoat. If the country has problems, they blame it on the unemployed, disabled and other minorities. If the country has money problems, they tax the poor. We’re expendable in the governments eyes. They don’t care what happens to us.
    As for what to do, there’s nothing we can do. There’s a reason why we’re targeted for bullying like this, because if we fight back we lose everything and they know it. So all we can really do is vent out how crap it is and keep surviving. Hope that we can still have an income and a roof over our heads at the end of each week despite how unreachable the expectations that are put on us are.
    I know Australia is a lucky country, but when you’ve spent your life on the bottom of the social hierarchy, it doesn’t really feel like it.

    1. Hi Anon, i read your post, yes you did vote for the liberals to get kicked out, and so did alot of other
      australians, and thay only got back in by the skin of there teeth, and the only reason that happen, was
      because the liberals had such a large majority of the votes when labor was booted out, the last election the the liberals were very lucky, the amount ppl that went against the liberals on the last election was huge, that says something, the ppl dont like the liberals and there polacies, lots of ppl asking to pay money back
      that there defective computer programs, sending out letters claiming ppl own money, with no real right to
      defend your self due to many different reason, the only power you have, AND NEVER GIVE IT UP. IS THE VOTE, thats when the poor can talk, its the only power the ppl realy have over the goverment, next election vote again, vote them out there will be more ppl doing the same.

      1. I will agree that I hope Liberal get kicked out next election. They’re so greedy and they discriminate against minorities and those doing it tough. They only care about themselves, and the big companies, not the Australian people.

        I’ll definitely try to vote them out again next chance. I just hope that things can be fixed, life is so much harder then it used to be.

      2. Actually, as much as I despise liberal, they’re not to blame for this.
        Kevin Rudds wife owned a lot of employment agency type companies.
        He is responsible for the current situation. This stuff was implemented before John Howard was elected. Wftd and employment agencies…
        But Kevin Rudd did his wife a favour and made it so employment agency’s have more rights to mess with us, get more money and we have less say.

  54. I attempted to contact my service provider multiple times to let them know I would be unable to attend my last appointment. I called twice and when noone answered, I was prompted to record a message and press the pound key to save it. I havent seen a pound key on a phone in like 15 years so I had no idea which key that is. I then googled them and emailed the address listed on their website. The email was returned to me by their mail server stating that I am not on their authorised senders list. Neither my provider nor centerlink attempted to contact me to ensure no reasonable excuse for missing the appointment existed. I have recieved no calls, SMS, emails, postal mail or my.gov messages in the last month from centerlink or my provider and now I have been on hold with the participation team for 2 hours because after reporting today the centerlink website is telling me I wont be paid tomorrow.

    This website is a godsend. I otherwise would not have known centerlink and my job provider have both failed to meet their obligations to me.

    1. That’s ridiculous, they should at least call you back even without a message.
      I don’t know what a pound key is either to be honest. I’ll have to look up what that is.

      Centrelink is impossible to get a hold of too. I’ve had to cancel appointments with them, but couldn’t get a hold of them on time. It’s expensive to be on the phone that long too, and I haven’t always had the credit.

  55. I am Stream A and more than capable of getting a job for myself and I am fulfilling my obligations, getting interviews etc. My issue is I booked an overseas trip (for more than a month) a year ago whilst working and now that is approaching and although I am getting interviews etc as soon as they ask if you are going away I think I am not being offered longer term jobs, so I have had mostly short term contract work. My JNP (Job Network Provider) is insisting on having fortnightly meetings to discuss my progress. I queried why he wanted to meet with me every fortnight which I believe is more their obligations (I believe once a month is all they need). Even by their words is that I am having a good hit rate from applications. Currently I have two casual positions and still applying for other jobs and getting interviews and doing online tests but he is still insisting on meeting with me every fortnight and its making it hard to fit that in around applying for my 20 odd jobs a month, work, interviews, online testing, online inductions for the new jobs. I made a comment about doing a occupational course and he nearly lost his s**t, telling me “I can’t do that.” I called centrelink and dept of employment and found out (not surprisingly) he wasn’t quite 100% correct in what he had said. Anyway this JNP has not done anything for me bar meet with for 5-10 mins a fortnight to discuss my activity offering nothing in return. They have never let me know of any jobs going etc. Furthermore, when I queried about that he doesn’t need to meet with so often his response was ‘that is what successful consultants do”.. What?? I am not there to make YOU look good!! Now I have a form to fill in for my newest employment and they are asking for my pay rate. Even Centrelink doesn’t ask for that! It’s confidential! They reakon it is so they can match what income I report. That is what the tax dept and centrelink do now isn’t it? It has nothing to do with my JNP. Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.

    1. Pretty much if you are collecting any income support payment you can guarantee that the Dept of Employment (Jobactive Provider) will be pushing you into a job…. They dont care what you report to Centrelink, they are to verify and monitor your employment (hence the Dept of Employment). Remember you are a volunteer there, as you have voluntary gone on income support payments – no one held a gun to your head and made you go on income support payments, if you dont like it then get off it….

      1. Volunteer? You think any of us WANT to rely on government money? You do realize the alternative is often homelessness right? If I didn’t have government help, I’d be on the streets, cause I wouldn’t be able to afford rent. And once you’re on the streets, there’s no recovering from that, no one wants to employ a homeless person, and if your sick you probably can’t do anything anyway. No, no one wants to be on benefits (unless your a lying dole-bludger), it’s that we haven’t got a lot of choice. And while we’re on benefits, I think we all deserve to be treated with some humanity, and not like inferior garbage.

        1. Yes but it’s still free and there are appointments to keep and decisions to be made , to help you stay as a functioning member of society. Iv read a lot of people get jobs and within two months have lost them due to it being for a number of reasons…. mainly the routine was to much for them to adjust too.

          It’s all free money and I don’t expect you all to get it , but we all have issues and we all have to be honest and do what’s asked.

    2. Notice you wrote this in March but … every time you see a Job Provider they are paid by the Government. So the more they see you the more the Job Provider gets paid. There needs to be a shake up of the whole system. The Job Providers are wasting tax payers money. Also you don’t need to tell them what you are earning.

      1. This is untrue. Your JA provider receives a nominal administrative fee when they commence you onto their caseload. They are then required to have contact appointments with you, the number per month varying depending on what Stream you are allocated, they do not receive a fee every time you come into the office. They are however, audited by the Department and if they have not met THEIR requirements a sanction can be applied by the Department which can include financial penalties. My suggestion to anyone who feels their provider is not servicing them correctly is to first address the concern with your Consultant- if you feel they have not been able to help, then approach their Branch Manager, if they also cannot address your concern or reasonably explain something, then contact their Customer Service/ Complaints department in their Head Office. While you receive a New Start Allowance you will be required to be with a JA provider and you will have Mutual Obligations, that will not change regardless of which provider you are commenced with, so you are much better off working out a way to work together and making sure they are servicing you and helping you to the best of their ability. If they are servicing you properly you should not be feeling bullied and you should have a understanding as to how a provider is meeting your requirements as well as their own.

    3. I have been asked for my pay rate and the number of hours worked by my DES JNP. Them tracking your income is what justifies them getting paid. Annoys the hell out of me too given I always get the jobs without any help from them.

  56. BAN JOB AGENCIES ALTOGETHER. !!!
    it’s no use going for a job in this day and age, most of the Hob Provider vultures grab jobs and scramble to stay afloat by the statistics they get on how many placements they have created putting people into work, thing is….sending a job seeker to North Sydney Job agency that they get you to sign up and fill in more crap just for a Job in Sydney’s West is utter stupidity,

    KEEP JOBS LOCAL !!!…..AND GET RID OF JOB PROVIDER AGENCIES

    BRING BACK THE OLD “C.E.S SYSTEM” !!!! where you find a job card, take it to the counter and the clerk organizes your suitable for the job, organizes an interview and introduction and your on your way,
    Screws this JOB AGENCY SCREENING SIGN UP CRAP MILES FROM ANYWHERE !!!

    It’s all statistics and money funding, they have control of Employers details and secrecy and no job seeker can bypass this control over us and apply in person….it’s all Bullshit !

  57. I have C-PTSD and have had mental health issues my whole life but I am determined to keep trying to find a job… I am with a provider and I finally got a job at the end of last year. I was able to turn up to the job and do the job to the best of my ability. They didn’t ask for references or do a police check and I was happy. I went to the job for several hours a week (it was good to get that experience of showing up to work, taking orders, following through etc). Unfortunately, they have me on the system as having to work 25 hours a week so my provider rang my new employers and harassed them into giving me 25 hours a week. Now the job was severely stressing me out. They were putting me on shifts at 10pm – 5am in the morning and my provider (and employer) were calling me during the day while I was sleeping to confirm shifts. They were waking me up and once I was awake I couldn’t get back to sleep. I asked them not to ring me during the day but they didn’t understand. i was stressed on the job now – easily upset, teary because of lack of sleep. I started snapping at people and eventually was let go.

    I blame the job network for this.

    The other day I went in to an appt with her and she asked if I was still looking for work. I said yes and she laughed in my face. Throughout the whole interview she was smirking and laughing at me, giving me this look like she didn’t believe me. It really bothered me, so I said hey, lady, I *had* a job and you screwed it up for me. First time in years I actually managed to get a job and have it work out for me and you – yes, you – screwed it up. She looked shocked, said ‘You told me about the job though,’ and I said ‘Yes, because I thought I had to.’ I ended up crying and leaving. (Yes I’m an emotional wreck. Hence the trouble finding and keeping a job).

    Next appt I see a new guy and he immediately accuses me of having *attitude*. I said I don’t have attitude. We sat down and he said ‘Are you aware you are required to work 23 hours a week?’ I thought back to my job and how happy I was in the beginning when it had only been 15 hours and I replied, ‘So what if I get a job that’s less? What am I supposed to do then?’ and he again said ‘What’s with the attitude? We’ve only just met and you’re showing me this attitude?’ I started crying (Yes, I know, but I can’t help it. My feelings are just way over the top 24/7. I wish I could stop them.) I said, ‘I do everything I’m required to do: I look for jobs each fortnight, I attend appts on time. And I get treated like shit.’ I ended up leaving again because I couldn’t stop crying.

    Anyways I put in a complaint about them because I just want to be able to look for jobs and be treated with dignity. Seriously I want to work but I am an emotional wreck so being pushed and taunted isn’t doing me any favours.

    1. Have you had a recent job capability assessment recently? The job network provider cannot change what is in your job capability assessment. If the Centrelink assessor says you are only able to work 15 hours, that’s it!
      You should be having job capability assessment every 2 years, or so a Centrelink staff member told me at the end of last year.

  58. Omg
    There are other people out there in the same boat!!!
    I can’t believe how the government is so ignorant of the useless service providers that get funding for harassing the unemployed people.
    The ones that need the most assistance to regain skills, support and training are the ones that fall through the cracks.
    Threats, intimidation, condescending remarks from service providers (including the disability services) are the new norm to push people over the edge.
    Even if you were keen to find a job initially, once you are signed up to these places you start to lose self esteem, motivation, become anxious, feel panicky and humiliated.
    So to add to your woes now, you have to deal with psychological issues that may push you to isolation, loss of sleep, uncontrollable behaviours, anger, frustration, tears, (attitude!!), gambling, drinking, stealing, eating disorders, drugs, over spending, possibly serious crime, and or self harm!!
    Meanwhile, the government is forking out billions to hundreds of organisations to “assist” the jobless who are now becoming “dysfunctional” to add to their resume.
    Let’s not touch the subject of homelessness, that’s now not even a dream anymore especially if you suffer from insomnia.
    The solution??
    Beats me….
    I thought that was the job for our government…..

  59. The job network system is a complete failure in every respect. My last 4 case officers have also been either morbidly obese or extremely obese. If you talk to Centrelink staff, including senior staff, they all want to return to the days of the Commonwealth Employment Service. This would save billions of dollars and ease the epidemic of depression and dissatisfaction.amongst job seekers.

  60. I had put in for a transfer for a new job network as I was sick of the broken promises from them,Upon arriving at the new one to apply for them they looked me up and down with disgust left me sitting for about 15 minutes then finally come over,Ask me questions like “So why are you here” why do you want to be with us? “Do you want to work mate”? Of course I wanna bloody work! Then they threaten me with “OK well were happy enough to take you on but just be reminded you must attend every appointment and job search or else we will transfer you out of here and breach you if you don’t comply,Seriously some of the workers in those job agencies are on major power trips,You are made to feel like a criminal for being out of work or made to feel you are the bad guy for wanting a transfer

  61. Is it true in Australia after 1-2 years the job network can transfer you to another network ? The guy I have said that he will be transferring me to a new provider I don’t think they are correct and just trying to move me on any else having same problem ?

  62. After finishing my certificate IV in Dental Asissting, I was “promised” a job by many of my “case mangers” that changed every appointment I attend. After nine months of attending the appointments, bringing them proof of my applications, they finally placed me on “work for the dole” scheme. After complainig, they said that they “promoted” me to certain employers, but without success. They couldn’t even place me in my work field to work for “free”. I am not willing to work in a second hand store, fold dirty clothes for 5 hours per day. I wouldn’t mind working “for free” with a dentist, to gain working experience in Australia. Now that will boost my self esteem! After paying out of my own pocket for the cert IV. I asked them to provide me with the proof that they “promoted” me to employers.
    I want to find a job more than they want me to find one,! I

  63. The should be some sort of law need to put in place to stop the bullying and harassment from job provider. Not every job seeker is useless or not want to work. Job provider needs to assist their client with full understanding, willing to help appropriately and find the job that match individual circumstances, skills, experiences and ability that they can do and happy to do.
    The Government and Centrelink need to stop funding to bully, harassment, uneducated and lack of knowledgeable Job provider.

    There are so many job seeker who has worked and paid tax all their life but when they get older or sick or disability from injury at work, their redundant their job. Therefore, they need to seek alternative job suitable with their disability, injuried and permanent ill health issues.

  64. Hi guys,

    Does anyone know if it’s possible to change the office I’m with Employmet Plus or can I request a new “case manager”? I can’t deal with this incompetence.
    Thank you.

    1. I was with Employment Plus before and they won’t transfer you if you haven’t made an effort to find a job. If you haven’t got a job during the time you have been there, they will not transfer you. Scared of losing their govt funding.

      1. Thanks Chris,

        I am having a lot of issues with them. They never check how many jobs I applied for. I found volunteer work in my field, but after I mentioned “employment agency” I never heard from them again. Same happened with an employer, after they bombarded him with numerous messages and emails, he said he wasn’t interested in their financial help and told me that he won’t deal with it, so it was “good luck and goodbye”… I will never give them the potential employers details again-ever! I refuse to let them take credit for something I did by myself.

  65. The mob that I’m with sent me to go and get a truck licence but I have a drink driving conviction from about four years ago. Yet they refused to help me get a security licence to be able to get work in an industry where I actually have experience in. Go figure.

  66. They refused to pay for a warehousing course for me because apparently I won’t get a job out of it,OK that rejection was enough for me to put in for a transfer,Tried 2 other networks but was told one was full and the other will get back to me they never did until I rang up a week later asking what’s the go,Oh sorry were full and we don’t really take transfers is what they told me,So back to square one down that bloody job center applying for every job and any job. Finally land one do the right thing and tell them I working,Then next thing they asking for my payslips, I tell them its just on going casual work,But they want every detail. The next week I’m getting letters in the mail with big capital and highlighted letters saying BRING PAYSLIPS TO APPOINTMENT, Also the usual threatening message if you don’t comply with us we will breach your payments for 8 weeks,Why would they need our pay slips that should be private and none of their business,I already reported my earnings to centrelink so my earnings should be none of their bloody business!!

    1. For an employment agency to have the ability to cancel centrelink payment as their pleased is the scariest and most disgusting thing ever.

  67. Looks like I’m in the same boat as most.. Forced into a course, but then told to quit course to get a 30hr week job. If I quit the course I will have to pay full amount of $15,000 as currently it is government subsided. Have provided medical certificates, but Campbell Page Job Service Provider expects my condition to disappear whenever they see me.. They apparently know better than specialist doctors, suspend my payments, bully me and are purposely trying to make my condition worse hoping I’ll just give up.
    I’m at my end. I cannot take any more of this. To think that my taxes for the last 20 years goes to pay these unqualified assholes to treat people like this makes me sick.
    Is there any way NOT have a Job Service Provider and just look for work on my own??
    How can I escape them??
    I’ve never been treated badly at a job interview but once a week I’m treated like the scum of the earth for doing a course (they had to approve) and not being “better”. The stress is constant because of them.
    In the past 3months was the maximum time it took me to find a job on my own.
    With the extra appointments, extra stress, extra bullying I’ve been out of work 3 years…
    How many hours of work do I need to be rid of these imbeciles?
    Can anyone tell me of a GOOD job service provider?
    I’d much rather work than attend their appointments, that steal my productive time and hinder my job seeking attempts.

    1. I completely understand you. I am pretty much on the same boat as you. I am with Salvation Army Employment Plus Agency and they are useless. I have to attend the appointment that lasts less that 5 minutes, they don’t bother trying to find a job in my work field..they are pushing me to work in retail in a store or my payments will be stopped and I have to look for a job as well.. I don’t know anything about retail, nor do I care about it. Please, if you hear or find a employment agency that actually does something, share it with us.

  68. The pain and anguish you are all experiencing is deliberate. The LAB-ERAL PARTIES every ones been traditionally voting for are industrial parties that primarily serve corporate entities. Labor represents the unions and liberal the corporates. Their primary allegiance is to the foreign corporate oligarchies that now govern Australia and rape our resources. The LAB-ERAL parties deliberately reduced the Australian workforce from full time to part time, to create employment for the flood of foreigners and immigrants that they’ve imported.

    The outcome is there are not enough jobs to go around, and the suppression of wages for local industries, exporters, and the large foreign corporate entities dominating our resources. The service provider I have posts no jobs on their walls, offers no employment, and acts more like a parole office than an employment service provider. They even had me seeking twice the number of jobs required by centrelink. We’ve been globalized! Australia is no more. We are all living in Glob-stralia!!!

  69. I have been given next to no support from any JNP. Whilst I found my own job on my own accord, they got extremely excited and offered me an incentive for the employer to sign. I refused, as I got the job on my own without any help from them! They asked why and I stated my reasons and flat out said “I recieved this job on my own and it would be embarrasing for my own dignity to have my employer sign forms for centrelink and JNP, to which JNP ring up employers and annoy them on a daily basis to check my progress and I don’t want to be treated unfairly based on the fact I’m on centrelink”. They were fine with this response to my face.

    I reported my earnings and would go into JNP office on my own accord to give them the hours I was working as to infrom them encase they had an upcoming appointment. My appointments were coinviently always placed on the days I was working and even the start time I was working, without a fail. They then proceeded to email me in my personal email constanly wanting my pay slips even though they had every single detail offered. I had no help with petrol cost despite the fact they said they would help me, hence why I was letting them know the days and hours I was working. When it came time for my interview I was told to go to the opshop, even though in my first contact interview they state they can provide this assistance along with petrol.

    They became extremely rude and arrogant especially since I didn’t sign the incentive. The stress of them cutting me off every single time I was working my shift as I couldn’t attend the appointment, despite the fact I would call 24 hours in advance to let them know my reason for not attending my appointment. So my pay would be constantly cut, I was threatned, stressed out because I wasn’t earning quite enough to be fully off centrelink…They ended up winning as I exited myself from centrelink and was living paycheck to paycheck, begging my boss for more hours despite the fact I had to hitchhike to the other site. I loved my job and I respected the people and I know they respected me as I was good, honest and hard worker. How is it fair to be treated this way and be left to struggle in order to keep a job I love because I didn’t sign their incentive which gives them money, while I had NO help except bullying, harrasment and even threats!

    Skip to another provider and I’m treated the exact same as soon I walked into the door an alcholic manager looked me up and down and was even making fun of the clients who were sitting there waiting for their appointment to the other lady who works in the office. She was loud and obvious. I was wearing heartshaped sunglasses and she said “oh geez, look at that, its funny when people dress like lambs when their muttons” mind you I’m 30 years old and look 21 from everybody who meets me, plus I’m short. She was also making fun of another person based on their apperance. Next time I came in, the office lady stated to a client ” the dragon lady has gone”. The point I am making along with everyone else is their job is to be bullies, to make your life harder and fearful, stressful so you end up exiting yourself from the system despite if you’re in hardship and actually looking for work, or in my case working.

    I dont feel its fair that these people are working, while good, honest, hard workers are given the shove by the entire population based on the fact you’re on centrelink, you will be a piece of scum. Despite the fact then plenty of centrelink workers and JNP were once on the dole and even sponging on the dole by not following their job obligations in a legal and moral setting. The audacity to look down their noses when their job consist of making appointments and changing appointments…There is no skill involved!

    Why is a government course 3 times higher than a private owned course?? It boils down to money and justifying placing governement money back into their pockets so they can turn around and claim its ” dole bludgers fault”. When your job is as pointless as a shark in a bird cage, then the only reason is “Its not a con, without the confidence”….

  70. I’m only required to find 2 jobs a month but every time I go to an appointment with her (every fortnight) she aka me if I have found 2 jobs and if I say I haven’t she gets up me! I sometimes feel like saying it’s 2 jobs a month not 2 jobs a day or fortnight! What I’m doing is voluntary and seeing that it’s voluntry it should be me that dictates the terms not her and it’s about time that she starts to realise that!!

  71. Companies and in particular public companies mustn’t be tying up capital in commercial real estate.
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  72. I was sick but attended a scheduled appointment with the employment agency anyway because I didn’t want to cancel it, but just wanted to get this over with. However, after being there for 45 mins. with, yet again new “case manager” I started to feel really sick. He rescheduled my appointment for in two days and requested a medical certificate because the “appointment wasn’t finished”, since I asked to leave. I don’t want to go to doctor for a bit of a throat pain or stomach flu, I just needed to stay in bed.. I hate going to GP for something that is not a big deal. I’m exhausted of this abuse from them. I don’t t have a medical certificate,

  73. I have been going to my JSP for the last 6 months.I have attended every appointment.I attended my appointment on the 10th.The following week nothing much happened i kept applying for jobs but getting no-where.On the Friday the 17th i received a phone call from my JSP that they were going to put me in their Work for the Dole scheme.I said okay.She told me that the appointment is for today at 11.I said fine.On the Saturday i was helping out with some volunteer work ,when i finished,i checked my phone and found a message from my JSP saying they had try to ring me and left a message.I got straight on the phone and tried to ring her.All i got was a message that everyone was busy and to leave a message.I left a message asking to ring me back.I got home and checked and still no reply.I tried to ring again ,same thing everyone is busy.I again left a message.Yesterday morning i got a call to go for a job interview.I went to the interview and i was told i would find out later in the week if i was successful.I get home and there is a message from my JSP that because i didnt attend a interview my payment has been suspended.I tried to ring again and still didnt get any reply..I am going to try and ring today and find out what happended.I can only hope i get that job.It is ridiculous.

  74. I work for a provider and everything you are all saying is true.

    They are power hungry inhuman bastards that simply see you as a number and a claim target.

    Providers in the country towns can be a bit better but the ravenous vulture providers in the city are shameless criminals.

  75. Hi guys I have read everyone’s story and it is so true I had the same issue but probably worst on multiple occasions my kids would be sick and would have to keep them of school to what the doctor recommended on sick days ! Now I’ve called my provider and have had told them my situation that my child is sick and of school now by letting them know about this problem . They were not lenient at all they refused me to send the doctors certificate as a email or fax and had asked me to bring it down and person see if there’s a problem my child is very very sick and they don’t care I had to drag my child out of bed and walked in from the car to the job provider network global skills in Toongabbie just to keep the payment for my kids and that’s not all it gets better I then have had enough of there bully techniques and decided to go down my child was ill but they still wanted the proof so when I arrive at globe skills toongabbie I told her what she is doing is Ludacris don’t forget my child is there with my . Every time I have to take my child down it hurts me too look at them it makes me fill pissed off so I told her this is WATS happening because I’m sick of there crap so I politely let her know and she had a fit upfront of my child my child was crying were is my writes I was so mad I wanted to kick her in the face but that would be just as bad as her. She then called her office all in de-stress don’t no why as I did not abuse her but spoke behind doors to her boss now she got angry about me standing up for my rights that’s all I could think of I think she felt that she could not bully me any more and it made her upset people need to stand up to these people or they will just walk all over you like your just dirt it’s not going to be the case with me as I have a lot of love and pride for me my wife and my kids not all are like this but the ones that are in these government job provider network and act very judgemental and rude it’s such a power trip it pretty much dose not mater that the if you work or not they are just scum like the ones that go there to there job network and act with disgusting behaviour ? Like I mentioned it doesn’t matter if you work or not thanks guy’s

    1. Ok you chose to have a family.

      I’m sure it gets hard.

      You ageee to do what you need to for the free money.

      Also try typing in paragraphs, your spelling will get better as you will re read paragraphs and see that some words are off. It must be hard but no one forces you to do it remember

      1. For Major ryder , you sound like a broken record & your spelling isn’t perfect. Reading your comments, I noticed a few errors. You’re very judgemental aren’t you. Judging people you don’t even know or know their circumstances. Must be hard to be believe you’re perfect & think you have no flaws.

        My job provider says it’s ok for me to work , but to do a Massage Therapy course, which can be done over the weekend & is an excellent career choice for someone with my injury & anxiety but I need a GP’s approval that it won’t cause further damage to my injuries. She contradicts herself !!!

  76. Hello back again.
    id like to add some food for thought, i keep reading my job service provider. never helps me, don’t do nothing for me, you no, all that type of things,
    first, there not there to help you, that i believe is a fact, there, there to provide you, with the tools you need to help your self, example computer,
    internet, what ever job might be advertised for the day in the news paper, and other jobs that employers offer them to share with the unemployed,
    they are not there to help you, in the way you think or want, also there not there to care, so don’t expect them to care because they don’t, you see, i got my problem, you have your problems the next person has there problem, you no what i mean, yeah shore, all every ones problems are on different levels, but like i said, they don’t care about yours or my problems, there not there to solve personal or medical problems, of cause there not allowed, to say it the way i just did, because that would look bad, and make them look like there not caring and understanding, but you go to the job service provider, that exactly what there like right, and sorry to be hush about it, but i think this has to be said, also look at the umbrella label they all work under, – job service provider – think about what that really means, there providing a service for you to find a job, says nothing about caring, nothing about them finding you a job or having a job for you, nothing about solving your medical condition, im unemployed and have medical problems to, so don’t think i don’t understand, im just saying it the way it is, so people maybe be more empowered, the job service provider is only there to get you off the dole at any cost, they don’t care if you live on the streets, they don’t care if you die, like i said before there not there to care, i no im coming across in a bad way, i don’t mean to be tho, i understand alot of people are doing it really hard, i am to,

  77. Thats like joblink armidale nsw because i have a car license i only get jobs out of town like one that was 60km from town i was unable to see my 5 kids untill the weekend and help wth every day stuff or send me to tamworth over 100km away just so the drones without a license can get the work in town 90% of work ive done i found myself at times i dont know how steve at joblink keeps his job because he is no good at it must talk as much shit to the government as he does me

  78. I want to stay with the same employment agency because of the level of support they offer and have had employment outcomes. Jobactive says too bad, your agency must not of put the information into the system properly and you can’t change back. They say even with the correct information it is too late. It’s in the system, can’t change it and you can’t speak to anyone about it. They are not interested in the individual and it is clear from the staff obnoxious way of speaking to clients that they don’t care. Now I have to front up to another agency, retell my story and provide all of my details even though I just landed a 6 month contract that was possible through the support I received from my previous agency. According to jobactive it cannot be changed. Just nope…not even possible.

  79. Hi everybody,
    I hope you’re all doing fine in new year.
    I found a part time job, I reported my income to Centrelink and cancelled the appointment with my employment agency due to my work schedule. I receive a phone all from my case manager telling me that he will reschedule another appointment because I need to sign some paperwork. I don’t want them to know where I work and I certainly don’t want them calling my employer to offer some sort of help with my wages or whatever the scam it might be…does anyone have any experience as to what exactly they want me to sign? Can I just ignore them and keep reporting my income to Centrelink. I lost my job once, due to their constant calls to my employer…I’m really confused.

    1. Just don’t show them your payslips, Report your earnings to centrelink and tell your job network you can’t attend appointments as you are working,I been working now for almost 6 months and every month they sent me three fortnightly appointment letters with big capital letters ‘Please bring in your payslips’,Why does the job network provider need our payslips if we are reporting our earnings to centrelink?

      1. Thank you Joel. I know they have tendencies to take credit for “finding” people’s jobs, but the statement of “you need to sign some paperwork” confused me a bit.
        Thank you so much for your help.

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  82. I’d put it in writing, I’ve made three complaints about the same person and guess who they got to call me discuss it.

  83. Let me say that the entire setup is completely illegal and will be canceled after NESARA & GESARA goes through. There is enough wealth on this world to provide all 8 billion people living here with several million dollars each, and it is coming. I’ve been watching it for over 20 years and it’s imminent. Google the word NESARA to see what this legal document is – as it is a refund of all illegal income taxes and so much more. So have hope.

    Centrelink is a for profit, private corporation set up in the USA. You can’t take centrelink to court in Australia, you have to go to USA to do that. The USA court system including their top court is a privately owned corporation as well, so in fact you can never win. You are enslaved. Earth is known as a slave planet and being forced into jobs against your will is in violation of every law, and will change soon. They keep dropping nuclear warheads on Hawaii, Japan, all over the place, and each bomb is neutralised. They want WW3 but it won’t happen; they are being taken down. Every president except Trump has been a robotic clone, a puppet. Look at whatshisname here who took that bite of an onion with the brown skin on…he’s a clone. The music industry is full of satanic clones all dancing in satan’s name, because they’re human robots. We advanced past the combustion engine in the 50’s. We have science fiction type advances all repressed, including the cure for cancer. They want all ‘slaves’ to die, to suffer, and that is exactly what the DES is about. Just know that karma will get all those fools who abuse others for fun. They get paid to put you in any job. They get paid to do it quickly. They will come down, as this is total Treason.

    Trump has declared a national emergency (which fake, mainstream media ignored) and is currently taking down all the people trafficers, the sex trafficers, and those evil ones at the top who own Centerlink, own the Central Banks, own the IRS and the CDC. It’s all coming down right now. So have hope. All the new technology and NESARA to be announced soon. Free energy for homes etc. No income tax. New car propulsion technology. New Governments. And Freedom.

    1. You have a point even though most people will call you nuts. And they aren’t robots they are however being controlled in some way by the central bankers. Don’t need to name them as I’m sure you know who they are.
      There’s one thing you’re wrong about however. It will not change and will get worse.
      If Trump did not win the election we would already be a year into WW3. Ive read a lot on this and Hillary Clinton was getting ready to declare war on Iran which of course means war with Russia. People don’t understand that these tyrants have no enemies left. Not ones that are a match for them anyway. A few countries in Europe, South America, Iran and Russia. All of these places have massive sanctions to weaken them. Russia are their only real challenge. That’s why they are being attacked through controlled media, with no proof or legitimate reason.
      These tyrants have chosen the liberal democratic system to do this because most people trust them for their fake social system.
      It’s so obvious but most people are blind or to busy to care.
      Get ready for the Big Bang. It will happen before 2025. Australia will be the safest place on earth and be flooded with people when this happens.
      This war will wipe out a third of the worlds population.

  84. My letter to Jobsearch.gov.au.

    “Request for extension of the maximum time for jobsearch provider transfers

    To whom it may concern,

    I have just spent the entire morning getting an engaged signal from Centrelink – Newstarts (general) contact number – 132850. I then waited a further 38 minutes to get through to the complaints department to report this problem!

    I was recently sent a text message from the Department of Employment Services (Department of Jobs and Small business) stating that I am required to transfer to a new jobsearch provider, as I have been with APM for over 104 weeks (2 years).

    I was told I in the text message that I have been placed with “Workskills”. No option to freely choose my jobsearch provider was offered.

    In 2013 I was with Workskills as a jobsearch provider, when I was previously unemployed. I found myself a job and as such Workskills asked me to complete a form (survey) as part of my transition from unemployment to work. During in my time with Workskills they never found me any jobs, let alone an interview! The form Workskills provided asked how many jobs Workskills had found for me during my time with them. There was no option of zero jobs, the only options on the Workskills form were, Workskills found (me) 1-5 jobs or 6-10 jobs!
    I made a complaint to Workskills about the form and lack of option to select zero jobs. I also reported Workskills for fraud to the appropriate government body at the time.

    I live in a capital city where there are only three job active employment providers, which means if I want to transfer to another provider the only other option I have is to go to MaxEmployment, unless I can get approval for a disability (which expands the number of jobsearch providers considerably). I was assigned to Workskills and I have been blocked from re-selecting APM on the jobsearch website.

    I phoned MaxEmployment today to enquire about transferring to them and was met with a very rude customer service representative on the phone. When I enquired about transferring from Workskills to MaxEmployment the lady informed me that I would need to fill in a form (paper) and get consent from Workskills to transfer to MaxEmployment. I asked if I could do the transfer online or over the phone and was told I would need to complete a paper copy of the transfer form from Workskills and submit it to MaxEmployment. I do not have sufficient money for petrol or a bus fare. I do not have a printer. I am unable to walk any great distance due to my Achilles tendon. The lady from MaxEmployment was rude and completely uncompromising.

    I live in a capital city where there are currently only 3 jobsearch providers. Worksills (4 stars), APM (3 stars) and MaxEmployment (2 stars) for jobactive unemployed people .

    I really do not want to have to use Workskills as a jobsearch provider, particularly after their previous fraud when I was with them. I really do not want to transfer myself to MaxEmployment when they are rated the WORST jobsearch provider in the area (barring some disability employment service providers). I certainly do not want to support or have government money spent supporting such a poor performing, rude, incompetent jobsearch provider as MaxEmployment or a fraudulent one such as Workskills.

    Under the Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (b):

    “A stream Participant may, at any time, be transferred from the Provider to another Employment Provider by the Department where the Department is satisfied that:
    The Stream Participant [Newstart recipient] will receive services that could better enhance their Employment prospects from the other Employment Provider; or
    The Stream Participant and the Provider are unable to achieve or maintain a reasonable and constructive servicing relationship, as determined by the Department”
    Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (b)
    “Where a Stream Participant has demonstrated to the Department’s satisfaction that they will receive better Services from another Employment Provider, the Stream Participant may be transferred to that Employment Provider (see clause 81.1(b)).
    To request a transfer, a Stream Participant may contact the Department’s National Customer Service Line, which will assess the request. Where the Department determines that the Stream Participant has demonstrated that they will receive better servicing from another Employment Provider, the Department will action the transfer. Where the Department does not agree to the request, the Stream Participant will be informed of the decision.”

    I really do not want to be transferred to a fraudulent jobsearh provider, such as Workskills.
    I really do not want to be transferred to a sub-par, rude, jobsearch provider who is ignorant of the rules and legislation required to be a jobsearch agent/provider. How does this improve my chances of getting a job? Particularly as I have a good relationship with APM.

    How does transferring me to a sub-par jobserach provider improve my chances of getting a job? Especially considering there are insufficient jobs and 16 unemployed people for every advertised job! As you are no doubt aware unemployed increased by 27,800 people over the last year, regardless of how many jobs the government claimed it created!

    Under the Jobactive Deed 2015-2020, 81.1 (b), please may I be transferred back to my original jobsearch provider – APM. Where I know I will at least get good service and support.

    Kind regards
    Australian citizen

    P.S.
    In reality the privatisation of the CES (Commonwealth Employment Service) has been a massive budgetary burden to the people of Australia. With private jobsearch providers now costing the budget over $7.2 BILLION dollars per annum, on par with the total cost of Newstart, Youth Allowance and Austudy combined. Money that would be much better spent increasing social security payments above the poverty line and/or creating jobs.

    How can such a system ever be effective when it is in the interests of private jobsearch provider corporations for there to be a continual pool of unemployed people? Or if said jobsearch providers were to miraculously find every unemployed person a job, they themselves would be unemployed!

    How can these private jobsearch providers even be considered viable when there are 16 unemployed people for every available job? To continue with such economic and social madness is not in the national interest. It is effectively just giving private corporations government money; as there is no way for the private jobsearch corporations to find everyone a job!

    We have already seen numerous jobsearch providers being charged, fined and removed for defrauding the system. We have recently seen the number (choice) of jobsearch providers decline to what is quickly becoming a private monopoly over welfare policing and enforced jobsearch provision.

    It really is time to return to a government controlled, central authority such as the CES. It would be far cheaper and easier to manage. There is not one example in Australia where privatisation of government departments has saved money or improved services. It is time to put ideological insanity aside and return to the nation’s best interests of evidence based approaches to public services, policy and legislation.”

    Fingers crossed.
    I hope my post script does not diminish my chances of success. Then again I am cynical of a positive response.

    1. I can see them responding by saying everything you already know; “This is compulsory and we want you to encourage you to find a job…” I hope that I’m wrong. Having dealt with these imbeciles and being “forced” to do WFTD activity in a dirty Salvation Army shop after graduating, your chances of getting a logical response is almost 0%.
      No matter who you have contacted, the threats of your payment being stopped are consistent and that’s going to be mentioned in every response you get (if you get any). They’ll make you go to an employment agency wether you like it or not.
      Good Luck.

      1. The only response is YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT and receiving 28 bucks a day allows me to travel 80kms per day for wftd and only getting 56 bucks a fortnight that only gets me 1 week of wftd

    2. Everyone disillusioned by a system that doesn’t acknowledge unemployment as a fact, not employment providers but as ‘work for the dole providers’ could send the main theme of this letter to the appropriate member of government like Michaelia Crash whom only in a short working time is guaranteed a pension for life!
      Used to be after 9 years in parliament a guaranteed pension.

  85. I was with Sureway as a job seeker for about three years and they tried their hardest to find me job. But then I was sent to CGVT six months ago and it’s been an absolute nightmare ever since. They were suppose to arrange ‘Work for the Dole’ over a month ago, failed to submit two police check forms, have made excuse after excuse and are now claiming they’ve encountered several barriers. I’ve done ‘Work for the Dole’ at a local charity store in the past and their more than happy to have me there again. Lately I’ve been getting the impression that CVGT have been making all these delays in an unprofessional attempt to get their own way and to send me somewhere which suits them and not me.
    Did not appreciate the last phone call from them and as a result suffered sever stress pains. It was something I did not need especially with the family going through financial difficulties at the moment.
    Sureway did not carry on the way CVGT has and in the past would have all the paperwork ready and prepared for me to sign and collect in order to do ‘Work for the Dole’. Will be making an attempt to transfer back to them tomorrow.

  86. Update: Things have officially gotten worse with CVGT and not even the main office will lift a finger to help me. I haven’t encountered this level of bullying since high school. Contacted the customer service hotline and they instructed me to research into other job agencies and there are several in Wagga Wagga who might be able to assist me. But CVGT denied that fact, the case worker was quick to snap at me and clearly indicated that I cannot leave. I was pushed and pushed to the point of a mental breakdown and as a result have been prescribed two different antidepressants by a doctor in order to calm down. Will also be requiring to see a therapist.
    My last resort is to leave the state and move to Queensland where my boyfriend lives. One way or another, I’m going to get away from CVGT even if I have to go without way financial support for as long as it takes.

    1. You need therapy over a person asking you to do what you agreed to do to receive free money. Your medicated over this also and a nervous breakdown?? Come on be truthful

      If it was that bad your gp would provide you with a medical certification stating that you cannot do any work for three months etc

  87. Salvation Army employment plus’s agency lost their contract and it’s now Status employment agency that I have to deal with. I am working casual and am a full time student studying Psychology. They are damanding my employers contact details and are ignorant to me being a full time student this demand me to come every fortnight for an interview. I just don’t know what to do, they are threatening with suspending my payment.

  88. Hahahah wow oh wow.
    Whingers, what about your commitments.

    I am looking for work now
    Personally. I won’t take a pension from DVA, they can pay my medical but not me, you work for your money,. It’s an old fashion notion of wanting to show for something

    Will announce like the majority do with ALL about me first!!
    ME
    -I have crazy PTSD
    (6 roatations to the Middle East,outside the wire three others globally)
    -CRPS (complex pain issue that cannot be explained by scientists & Drs etc)
    -now I am Bi-Polar and Borderline Personality Disorder.
    – I was shot seven times. Had a four month coma, and 18 months learning to bath, shower feed myself and walk again. Had no gross motor memory. The hardest I had to LEARN to TALK again.
    -some weeks the pain cripples and I’m on a walking stick other weeks I walk ok and nearly jog.
    —-obviously hyper insomnia, blah blah yeta yeta

    ***i sometimes get a Med cert for the three months and use it for two. Occasionally don’t need one at all.***

    I don’t want the Disabled Allowance or a DVA Type.

    Life was not ment to be easy it can be enjoyed though and it can be glorious when you rise above your station in life.

    Tax payers pay tax, that pays for our allowances. We all have specific issues making our lives harder to be employed or find employment .However we have COMMITMENTS to the system that pays you all.

    Get motivated , stop whinging.

    I cannot medically drive a car ever ever again. I cannot do a lot of things ever ever again, but I still get out of bed and give it a shot.

    Even if you only get as far as a shower, a shave and a pop your head in at the employment office. YOU HAVE ACHIEVED SOMETHING!

    You will learn to care for them and they will learn to respect you , how you all seem to demand. Then your at least upon the road to a routine and getting mutual respect.

    If your all so sick medically why does a doctor not provide Medical Certification of this?

    Now I do hear you , what your saying but it takes time to make changes. The system is not perfect it cannot be amended and fixed unless you get out of bed and go there to help.

    One appointment to figure out what’s going on, even if you have to wait all day, your getting money for nothing. What do you care!!

    1. I refuse disabled pension also major but the job network system is broken and made me homeless by cutting my payments off during mental crisis and they cut my payments off regularly when they want to get in contact with me instead of calling the phone they are white collar criminals feeding off the tax dollar and fraud I am sick trying to get well they just make me sicker

    2. Missing the point mate.Lots of unemployed have paid lot of tax over the years just so politicians can fuck the country,then blame the unemployed.Time for the hole lot of them to be sacked.Time for how to help not only unemployed,underemployed and the country.Not how can we get re-elected and screw us some more.ALL Australians should be appalled at the state of government in this country LABOUR and LIBERAL .Might be time to get rid of two party preferred system,my be then they might get there shit together.

  89. I selected Sarina Russo as a job service provider because of their reputable name and very well known service and for the good reviews I read about your firm.

    I am registered with Sarina Russo Cranbourne office since July 2017 until the date of this email, but unfortunately I have been treated with contempt and disrespected two times by the business manger Donna and she expressed her anger towards me when I tried to explain to her some issues related to my qualification and positions that I am looking for.

    I spoke with her in respectable way and I accepted her opinions just to avoid her anger. for example one time she said with anger to me (As long as you receive payments you accept what I do). I meet all the requirements and I attend all the appointments without any delays and I never breached Centrelink requirements, but I do not understand the reason for her behaviour towards me.

    After this experience I contacted Centrelink and withdraw my claim and live in difficult financial situation, just to avoid Sarina Russo and their manager Donna

  90. Today was the last straw with my job network provider, I have been with my current consultant for about 12 months and the agency longer than that. My current consultant is a cow, she started off relatively okay but over time has become awful to deal with and today she outright threatened me. She had set up an interview tomorrow for a job I really don’t feel comfortable doing, I felt I had to agree to it because she was in a right mood and was repeatedly telling me I have been lenient with you etc, she then pretty much forced me to go for this job, I don’t like confrontation and don’t deal with it too well and have minor anxiety issues. At present I work part time in a role I am very comfortable in, Centrelink accepts this and my pay has been reduced in accordance with what I earn. She outright threatened to report me if I mention this work in the interview or if I screw up the interview. Basically she has pushed me into something by threatening to cut me off. I have decided to change providers, as I’m sick of feeling like crap and having anxiety everytime I go there.

  91. Hi,
    Does anyone know if i cancel my centrelink payment do i still have to attend appointments and be on the system of my job provider?

    I cancelled my payments with centre link and Tursa (job provider) has said i still have to contact them for 26 weeks!?
    Shouldnt they just take off the system??

    1. they only want you to keep in contact with them so they can keep getting payslips from you and claim money from the government..the reason its 26 weeks is because the longer your employed the more money they get up until 26 weeks..as long as you tell centrelink you want to voluntarily cancel your payment the agency cant do anything..you may just have to attend 1 appointment so they remove you from their books

  92. You are a voluntary participant if you are not on any payments.
    There is no compulsory requirements if you are not receiving a benefit!

  93. I was wondering if anyone knows if the job search requirements have changed in the last couple of months? My friend has been registered with her job network provider since 2012 and she is a primary carer/parent to her 13 year special needs child. Isn’t 6 years too long to be with the one provider? Plus, she has been required to do 10 jobs per month (she applies more than that) but last month, she was told she now has to apply for 20 jobs a month. Is this right? We live in a regional area where jobs are few and far between, & she just barely made the 10, so upping up to 20 has her really stressed out.

    1. Yes, the requirement has changed. They expect everyone to apply for 20 jobs per month now, regardless of their special requirements. I only have a working capacity of 15hrs per week, yet they want me to apply for 20 jobs per month. This takes over 15hrs per week to put applications together, if I am able to find suitable jobs to apply to.
      Having said that; The government don’t care what you apply for, they just want you to apply and take anything that is offered. They obviously don’t realise that no one will offer an over qualified person, a lower grade job.
      The people that make these rules, have no idea about reality, or what would really benefit jobseekers ie. job agencies that actively assist in getting jobs for the unemployed, rather than wasting everyone’s time every fortnight.

  94. Try to change my provider, but the one that I like to transfer to said that they have no more place to take me in.
    What’s that supposed to mean?
    Can someone kindly explain,please!
    Thanks in advance 🙂

  95. Hi my name is marshall Graham
    I live near yarrabah aboriginal community and this
    Is the closes provider to my area and I am denying this service.there is a job network providers in yarrabah community has a indigenous job network provider all others job networks has been removed from the community and this new job network rang me up and told me that they can’t service me as a job seeker I will have to drive to cairns that is about 45 minutes drive in a car this is not right I’m indigenous as well. What can I do now.

  96. Stay the hell away from Advanced Personnel Management, they will do your head in. I am in the process of selling my car to help me to keep going due to being cut off benefits from their own stupidity.

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